How many rounds did you give Foreman against Ali?

Can you source the "Ali wanted Sadler back" thing ? I've never heard this before. Probably more conspiracy theory bull****,but I like to think that I've an open mind.

 

Foreman edged the 1st round (even though it was close, with Ali landing those lead straight rights in the beginning and Foreman peppering Ali's body and elbows at the end of the round). George was prevailing in the 5th until Ali came back with those 1-2s and made it even. So, my score was 5-1-1 for Ali.

It wasn't even close on the scorecards, Foreman landed 3-4 clean punches per round on the face and chin, with Ali deflecting and evading most of punches thrown by Foreman. Even the most of punches that landed on Ali's head didn't cause much damage, because Ali pulled away slightly or rolled with them. The most success Foreman had was in the earlier rounds landing some good shots to the body.

 

I don't know about Sadler poisoning Foreman. That seems highly unlikely. I do know that everything broke Ali's way.

Foreman sustained a cut in training, and the fight had to be postponed. Foreman was a hated man in Zaire. I saw a documentary, even the local witch doctors did they thing to put the hex on him. While most fighters would ignore this type of stuff, mental focus was a problem for Foreman in his younger days. He was angry, and fought angry.

Other X factors that went Ali's way were loose ropes that allowed Ali to lean back and stay away from Foreman's shots, a steamy area, and perhaps a 10 count that was a little fast. Of course Foreman was the dope who punched himself out and likely underestimated Ali resolve to win.

I had it 5-2-1 for Ali at the time of the stoppage. If this was the only film on Foreman, many would doubt his skills. He looks poor. Not nearly as sharp as he was vs Frazier or Norton for sure.

 

The poison?

 

I agree, Ali DID lose to Norton in the third fight and took the worst beating of his career which ruined him for all time. In addition, I have Ali losing to Jimmy Young as well, behind 2 rounds to 13 rounds. If Ali won any more than two or three rounds against Jimmy, you're going to have to show me how

 

All of them, if I recall. It's been a while since I watched the fight but it was pretty lopsided.

 

You gave Ali all the rounds or Foreman?

 

I agree with you 100%. The fights with norton, jimmy young and earnie shavers were all gift decisions. Would Muhammad Ali still be called the greatest if he lost twice to Norton, to jimmy young and earnie shavers? No. His popularity got him those decision not his actual ability in the ring.

 

Ali had one gift decision, fight #3, vs. Norton.

He was gifted vs. Young.

Shavers is debatable. He may well have won on the strngth of greater action at the end of rounds, & of course he nearly had Shavers out at the end,

He might still be called The Greatest. He was past peak, had the beginnings of Parkinson's after Manilla, was robbed of a continuation of his prime at least.

Who else fought so much quality & some ATG competition, & past his peak?
All Styles two, including excellent swarmers, hardest for boxer types, & someone who confounded him like Norton, 3 X even while faded significantly by the end of the trilogy.

 

I remember watching Ali vs Shavers for the first time thinking it was an absolute robbery. Shavers gave ali a bad beating.

 

Ali had one of the best chins ever. Shavers hit him with plenty, including for the first 2 minutes of the final round. But Ali had Shavers out on his feet for the final 15 seconds and only the last bell saved him from going down.

 

Ali had an excellent chin and is widely respected for it. Even when he did go down he got up again.

Ali was only stopped the once in his 21 year career, and that was in his zombie-like performance against Holmes when he was nearly 40 and totally shot.

Shavers had just turned 32 when he fought Ali was knocking them out up until then and well beyond. He was a huge puncher as his career 68 KOs testify.

 

You really need to take a look through Ali's record :good

And yes Shavers was a huge puncher :good

 

Shavers got Knocked out by Quarry in round 1. He wasn't a world beater. Good power but not a good boxer. Clay (his real family name he never legally changed) never fought skilled boxer-punchers, only swarmers and sluggers. Boxer-punchers like Joe Louis would have beaten the arrogant Louisville Lip to a bloody pulp. He would be outboxed like in the Norton fights except he would be eating really hard shots that would knock him out. Even a modern boxer puncher like Lennox Lewis would give Clay a bad beating and put him away. :bbb