How many rounds does Greb last against Hearns?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Amsterdam, Sep 5, 2007.


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  1. Amsterdam

    Amsterdam Boris Christoff Full Member

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    I disagree, I believe the film's purpose was to document Greb showcasing his skills, which were very good in that time, in a light sparring match. Showcasing his technique and style also.

    If it was just goofiness, why bother with filming it?

    That's how Greb fought, in a fight just more intense of course. However, even more intense, that's not acceptable vs. Thomas Hearns.

    Hearns KO 1.:good
     
    Amsterdam, Sep 5, 2007
    Amsterdam, Sep 5, 2007
    #31
  2. Amsterdam

    Amsterdam Boris Christoff Full Member

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    Sure, Tunney was slow, open, didn't punch correctly and had poor positioning and footwork and a total lack of timing.

    Hearns KO 1. Contested at 175 pounds correct? Hearns was still B level by the time he hit SMW, another jump won't hurt him against someone who would be totally incompetent in his own era of the 80's.
     
    Amsterdam, Sep 5, 2007
    Amsterdam, Sep 5, 2007
    #32
  3. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Who in the hell on Greb's record do you think would be favoured over a guy who won world title's in some 6 different weight classes? Not to mention scored early round KO's over men like Duran and Cuevas? Hearns was phenomenal. He would have easily been a great fighter in any era, and in most of the weight classes that he fought in.
     
    mr. magoo, Sep 5, 2007
    mr. magoo, Sep 5, 2007
    #33
  4. Amsterdam

    Amsterdam Boris Christoff Full Member

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    It's no matter Mr. Magoo. Greb and Tunney would not have been top 100 fighters in Hearns' era in their respective weight divisions and nothing you will point out will hit with anybody who judges solely off of resume and has their romanticism about classical fighters.

    I suppose the films from the 1920's and 30's had comparable special effects H2H with films from 1995...

    Maybe, what about era/era and h2h comparisons?:think
     
    Amsterdam, Sep 5, 2007
    Amsterdam, Sep 5, 2007
    #34
  5. Luigi1985

    Luigi1985 Cane Corso Full Member

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    :lol:
     
    Luigi1985, Sep 5, 2007
    Luigi1985, Sep 5, 2007
    #35
  6. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    janitor, Sep 5, 2007
    janitor, Sep 5, 2007
    #36
  7. Amsterdam

    Amsterdam Boris Christoff Full Member

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    Do you want to bring up some video?

    It won't be long before Cross Trainer comes in and a debate commenses, sadly, he is the only one who can defend the technical analysis that I present of older era fighters because he is so well researched on the era's.

    We still get nowhere. This debate is ridiculous as it is futile and the film clearly shows everything an open minded person would see.
     
    Amsterdam, Sep 5, 2007
    Amsterdam, Sep 5, 2007
    #37
  8. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    Sure but when you start putting him in against all time great light heavyweights and heavyweights he is going to be out of his depth.
     
    janitor, Sep 5, 2007
    janitor, Sep 5, 2007
    #38
  9. Luigi1985

    Luigi1985 Cane Corso Full Member

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    Never heard of fighters like:


    Gene Tunney
    Tiger Flowers
    Mickey Walker
    Maxie Rosenbloom
    Tommy Loughran
    Lou Bogash


    etc.? All these fighters would beat Hearns for example...
     
    Luigi1985, Sep 5, 2007
    Luigi1985, Sep 5, 2007
    #39
  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    This is esentialy what you have to believe for Greb to be anything other than the greatest middleweight of all time.

    Of course it is a rather uneique view so you will have to justify it.

    So what exactly makes Tunney technicaly inferior to say Antonio Tarver or other modern light heavyweights?

    What makes him less technicaly proficient than fighters from the 50s like Ezzard Charles and Archie Moore?

    Specifics please.
     
    janitor, Sep 5, 2007
    janitor, Sep 5, 2007
    #40
  11. Amsterdam

    Amsterdam Boris Christoff Full Member

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    Sure, I will try to make it as clear as possible.

    I think some video of both, if you wish to use Tarver for example, would certainly help in both of us analysing both combatants.

    But I listed a few out. The footwork issue's, the lack of timing(though this is not technique based, but it relates to their standing head to head), the openess and lack of guard, especially the use of positioning and then punching technique and precision, it's not comparable, even to a B level guy like Tarver.

    Video.:deal

    We can even compare them to Tarver.
     
    Amsterdam, Sep 5, 2007
    Amsterdam, Sep 5, 2007
    #41
  12. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    janitor, Sep 5, 2007
    janitor, Sep 5, 2007
    #42
  13. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    Here is some footage of Tunney looking prety damn impresive. It is important to emphasize that this is an unusualy high quality film by the standards of the day or even five years later.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0tMBpsRgTU&mode=related&search=

    Here is some earlier footage of Tunney shot with a more primitive camera. Comparing the two sets of footage it is easy to see that the early footage takes a lot out of Tunneys smoothness and delivery. If they were diferent fighters you would say that the first Tunney was much better.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks3sRKefARw&mode=related&search=

    Here is some Tommy Loughran. Obviously a verry slick customer.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acMVVn-OT2o

    The second half of the fight.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lkgm5C7Xvfc&mode=related&search=
     
    janitor, Sep 5, 2007
    janitor, Sep 5, 2007
    #43
  14. China_hand_Joe

    China_hand_Joe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ah yes, the good old days.


    One will note that back then there was no TV, VCRs, telephones and internet.

    Communication back then was limited, so with the limited interaction betweem trainers, training techniqes and knowledge were no able to be shared. A silo-ing kind of effect resulted from this.

    So with all the boxers back then training with their own individual or at best local knowledge, you in effect had fighters benifiting from only regional boxing knowledge competing at the top level.

    Maybe Greb got a few training tips in the local bar or something?

    But there was a lot less information available, a lot less literature.


    This is rather reflected by the manner in which pygmies could win fights against 'meaningful' opposition at higher weights.


    Now Hearns trained up, by the wealth of knowledge shared throughout the world, is a vastly superior athlete and boxer. It is safe to say Hearns should be considered the favorite.
     
    China_hand_Joe, Sep 5, 2007
    China_hand_Joe, Sep 5, 2007
    #44
  15. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    An invitation if ever I saw one. :D

    Very well--put up your choice of a Tommy Hearns clip and a Gene Tunney clip. Then we'll compare each, and I'll ad-lib as I go to try to keep up with your boxing technical knowledge.
     
    cross_trainer, Sep 5, 2007
    cross_trainer, Sep 5, 2007
    #45
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