How many wins would Frazier have vs

Not really. Frazier was peak for this fight. Ali was assuredly not. He was heavier around the middle and still rusty from that 3½ yr. layoff. Fight#2 is a better gauge, because both men by that time had declined at a similar rate.:good

 

When I say resume, I mean opponents. Isn't that what resume means? So do you think Louis beat better opponents than Ali?

 

Doubtful, since in the first fight both men were at a physical and (more importantly) a psychological peak. Frazier was already in serious decline when Ali got him the second time.

Whereas in the first fight, Ali had had the benefits of two (victorious!) comeback fights over the two best opponents around. He had not yet taken the punishment of FOTC, and neither had Frazier. His layoff was compensated for by a greater physical maturity (strength and durability) that was evident during and after the fight. If he had won, there would not have been as much of a question about his abilities vis-a-vis his prime.

 

Louis beat more contenders than Ali, and did so far more decisively. Many of the fighters Ali defeated were considered great because of their association with him. Louis never gave his opponents the chance to be considered great.

 

But your intuition may be a bit off.

Rocky had the better chin, and could throw very hard punches with both hands - not just one.

I don't see this as being an easy pick for any person. Rocky could have lost to Frazier, but I don't see it as a cut and dried matter.

 

How was Ali at his "peak" when he was off boxing for 3.5 years and was not in the best of shape? Ali also was not in his phychological peak either. He didn't take Frazier seriously, while Frazier was mentally possesed on victory. Ali did take punishment to the body in the Bonavena fight and had to fight Frazier 3 months after. Ali was not peak in FOTC.

And as for the second fight, both men were in decline, that was my point.

 

Ali would have done the same thing had he fought Louis' opponents.

 

That's a load of BS!

 

Talk about nuthugging.:rofl

 

I think Schemling had the tools to pull a upset over Ali imo. I think Ali was bound to lose one or 2 in Louis's era.

 

Describe these "tools", please.

 

Speculation is no substitute for accomplishment. Therein lies the rub--Louis proved he could dominate his own era better than Ali proved he could dominate his.

 

He was coming off of two of his best wins to date, both fairly easy. He was highly motivated to beat Frazier--this was the biggest fight of his career, and he realized its importance.

Now that's just silly. If FOTC couldn't motivate Ali, there is nothing that could.

Yeah, but Ali had a lot more left...and as you know, past-prime matchups (like Holyfield-Tyson, for instance) become less and less reliable as both fighters get older.

 

Yep, were his name to stand next to names like Godoy, they would "be champions in every other era" and be semi-great just like for instance Quarry, Norton and Bonavena are for losing to Ali.

 

Nobody would beat a prime Ali. In the 60s, he was unbeatable. OK, he was KD and almost KO´d by Cooper, but only because he fooled around. Against Banks also. Against Doug Jones, he was too green, and btw, he had a headache and so, a healthy version would have KTFO Jones. I would only favour slightly some really big mammals (Polar Bears, Sibirian Tigers, etc.), but humans? No way in hell... Ali, his opponents, and the whole era were clearly the best ever, in every single category! :hi: