How meaningful would a Pavlik victory over Floyd be?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Stovepipe, May 18, 2009.


  1. Stovepipe

    Stovepipe Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You imply here that it is significant to a point, by your language, however, earlier you backed away from that. Daffy duck wishy washy....

    Its a major and significant advantage. Is any thing less than your dumb ass idea of Paul Wililams vs Juan Manuel Marquez not worth pointing out?

    Keep responding. You lost.

    I love it. You don't even know what the hell you are arguing anymore because you admitted its significant again, above, betrayed by your own words.

    You just want to win but you have no point to make and are arguing about nothing. Two points: 1) Mayweather has a significant size advantage 2) A FMJ victory is not of major pound for pound significance.

    You already admitted both points. :good
     
  2. eze

    eze Everybody Know Me Full Member

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    Stovepipe. Keep smoking whatever is, it must be good **** for how stupid you are.
     
  3. Stovepipe

    Stovepipe Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I am so stupid that you have already agreed with both my points. What can you do though? You aren't a big enough person to simply state, you know something? You're right. But I got it out of you anyways. :yep
     
  4. eze

    eze Everybody Know Me Full Member

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    I agreed that it's not a great win but a good win., not that's it a big advantage that you make it out to be.

    I'll respond to your post in a bit. Im doing something.
     
  5. eze

    eze Everybody Know Me Full Member

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    What? Never having to lose that weight?

    When a fighter cuts weight, they are cutting water weight and add all of that back through the night and the next day.



    I don't see how JMMs frame isn't suited for 144 when he's a couple lbs off of 144 already. :lol:

    Im not understanding why are you using Juan Diaz as an example though. :nut

    JMM weighs 141. He doesn't have to add anything really. Mayweather is beating people that are 10+ lbs more than him. JMM could do it. Specially considering JMM is fighting a Mayweather thats coming off 18 + months of layoff.


    It's not significant when you consider JMM doesn't have to move up in weight. And why aren't you making threads about the disadvantages other fighters who have bigger disadvantages than JMM and are staying in their own weight class.

    Floyd walks around at 155ish. When he's in his fighting shape he weighs 147-149. Marquez weighs 141-144. Failing to see the point.

    You have to failed to factor in this is Floyds 4th weight class. I didn't see you making threads about the unfair advantages Mayweather had when he moved up to 147 and how much he was outweighed. :patsch
     
  6. eze

    eze Everybody Know Me Full Member

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    Blah blah blah. Why is Daffy Duck mentioned?

    How is so significant, it's called taking risk, taking a chance. Fighters do it all the time. You act like this never happens in boxing.

    Clearly you have. You mentioned daffy duck.

    Fail.


    I never once admitted it;s significant, i said it's an advantage but nothing huge. :patsch

    1. Wrong
    2. Wrongish - Mayweather beating JMM is a good win and would put him back in the top 5/top 3 but nothing like beating Pac.

    Ive said it's an advantage not a big one.

    You still act like fighters don't go through disadvantages everyday.
     
  7. eze

    eze Everybody Know Me Full Member

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    Answer me these questions.

    1. Why is Mayweathers advantage all you care about?

    2. Why not care about the disadvantages Mayweather gives up to someone like Mosley or Cotto or Williams?

    3. Who do you want Floyd to fight instead off JMM in July?

    4. Why do you act like fighters don't go into fighters with the same disadvantage JMM gives up all the time?
     
  8. Stovepipe

    Stovepipe Boxing Addict Full Member

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    And a fighter who has to rehydrate up to a certain weight isn't the same thing as a fighter who never had to lose the weight in the first place. If a fighter has to cut down to 135, even when he regains weight back up to 148 it isn't the same thing as a guy who goes from 144 to 148. The 144 guy is generally going to be much more solid and less fatigued all other things being equal.


    You are choosing to ignore the fact that Marquez is a small lightweight being forced to move up nine more pounds from a weight he is already small at. You are choosing to ignore the fact that the contract weight was a significant issue in negotiations and you have failed to address as to why this may be - obviously because it is of major significance.



    You must be laughing at how dumb your argument is. It is quite possible that because JMM is such an outstanding talent that he is still a competitive and even winning fighter at 144 even agaisnt Mayweather, although he is clearly the underdog. The reason he is a couple of pounds of 144 already is because he moved up to lightweight to chase another Pacquiao fight, just because he fights at lightweight it doesn't make it his best fighting weight. Just because he weights in on fightnight for godsake at 141 for a fight at 135 that doesn't mean he is realistically going to be competitive vs guys at 140 or 144 or 147.

    You are choosing to ignore how crucial making weight actually is in a fight, which is great, everyone can read this and see how stupid you are.

    We don't know how JMM is going to deal with the punches of a guy who gets to weigh in nine pounds heavier than any man he has ever faced. It is a significant advantage.


    Because Juan is a big lightweight and most everyone agreed that Juan had a weight / size advantage, many thought he would charge through the smaller framed JMM, and to a degree he did do that. Juan's weight / size advantage was significant at 135 and your dumb ass is trying to tell me Mayweather's isn't at 144.
    Marquez is already beating people that are naturally bigger than him at 135. Now he is being asked to crank it up another two divisions.
    Get it thru your thin brained thick skull. Fighting a guy that gets to weigh in at 144 and will enjoy using every ounce of that 144 pounds is far from fighting guys that have to cut down to 135 pounds. There is a reason we have weight divisions.
    This whole why aren't you making threads stuff is ******ed and a desperate attempt to run away from the issue. And coming from someone that still can't answer the questions I posed about Pacquiao fighting smaller fighters, its especially ******ed. Also you have failed to answer why the contracted weight was so significant to both fighters if it isn't a huge advantage.

    Marquez weights 144 now? How long until you make him a full fledged welterweight? :rofl

    At most any weight in the modern era both fighters gain a few pounds and many more than a few after the weigh in. Floyd being the bigger framed, bigger person, clearly has the size advantage, and this size advantage has been compounded by the fact that Floyd is forcing the fight at 144 against a guy who has only fought guys that had to weigh in at most, at 135, a weight that is already a bit of a stretch for JMM.

    To site the fact that JMM weighed 141 on a fight night is absurd. He is bulking up to compete at a higher weight of 135 and you try and use that information to say, well, it isn't much of a stretch to meet Mayweather, but it clearly is.

    To use a more exaggerated example, Mayorga coming in at 180 doesn't make him a cruiserweight or a light heavy it means he bulked up to try and gain an advantage.



    Well at least I am giving you an English lesson as you parrot my use of the language and its phrases. I take that as a complement. Back to the "I didn't see you making threads" argument. That is some weak sauce.

    Floyd is a small welterweight but JMM is a small lightweight. Try as you might you cannot get around this.
     
  9. Stovepipe

    Stovepipe Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It carries the implication of being a flip flopper or trying to have it both ways.

    Your only defense is one of semantics now. I call it significant and you say, no it is "taking a risk, taking a chance" if he is taking a risk than that right there is significant.


    You said its not significant to the point of.....which implies significance to a point, your problem again is one of semantics. You admit it is an advantage but as a
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    your goal is to downplay this advantage.





    This is a big jump and a big disadvantage for Juan but as a
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    you can't acknowledge that.
     
  10. Stovepipe

    Stovepipe Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Answer me this question:
    How do the answers to any of those questions carry any relevance to the question of significance of weight advantage in this fight? They do not.


    Here is a question for you that relates directly to this thread though. You claim since Marquez has weighed 141 that its no big deal to fight Floyd at 144. So how come, if Marquez chose to move up to 140 and campaign there, there would be a whole slew of folks saying no no no its too much? Why would people think it to be so risky? The answer of course is because it is, because fighting guys at higher weights is riskier........this is so elementary:verysad
     
  11. pipe wrenched

    pipe wrenched ESB ELITE SQUAD Full Member

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    :bart
     
  12. pipe wrenched

    pipe wrenched ESB ELITE SQUAD Full Member

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    Don't know, he didn't specify when he called PBF out on HBO.
     
  13. 'Ben'

    'Ben' Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I don't think so!
     
  14. 'Ben'

    'Ben' Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It's a lose, lose situation for Pavlik really, I mean if he wins it get's dicredited because of the size.... but if he loses he gets humiliated and ridiculed for losing to a former Super featherweight fighter!
     
  15. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Loyal Member banned

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    not much. Floyd never won a title at 160. If he had, then it would mean a lot. But Floyd never proved anything at the weight.