How might Joe Frazier have left a stronger boxing legacy?

That's what makes Ali and Louis stand out so IMO. If you stay around the top long enough, fighting all the top fighters, odds are that someone will come along that has your number, no matter how "weak" your era is perceived to be.

That's also why B-hop is such an amazing fighter. Been fighting the top guys at MW and LHW for 20 years and, at 48, has only lost clearly two times.

Funny thing is, if Frazier had given Ali a shot as the top ranked contender, instead of passing on him in favour of Foreman, Frazier's legacy would probably look a lot better today.

I do think Ali would have won, but it of course wouldn't have been a one-sided destruction. After that, Frazier would have staged a comeback by beating safe bets (just like in reality), lost another tough, closely contested fight against Ali and then retired. It would have looked a hell of a lot better with two close losses to Ali as his onlly blemishes. Frazier fan boys would claim that he only lost because he had lost focus and always would beat Ali prime for prime, and they wouldn't have to cope with Foreman using him as a basketball.

 

Yup. Part of a fighter's greatness is his ambience. His aura of just not being beatable. Ali and Louis had that in their primes, and Ali recaptured it briefly after beating Foreman. Frazier had it, then got clubbed like a baby seal. Tyson had it, then got schooled like a chump by a fighter nobody respected. Lewis had it, then got cold cocked by a perennial contender. It's funny how it works, but I think the wars that took so much from these two just might have helped them dodge the bullet of having their auras punctured(Though nobody was seemingly around to do so, nobody also thought that Douglas would kick Tyson's ass.)

 

by remembering he had a right hand

 

Search you're heart BE you know both are true. Especially if you only count Frazier as champ from FOTC on. Which I don't but whatevs. And i've never seen Frazier throw a decent right hand. Maybe he threw one by accident. Maybe.

 

in manilla, i think he waved at someone in the crowd with his right and it officially counted as a punch. so sure

as for when you considered him the champ, BE already schooled me recently on that so i'm not ****ing with him

 

I think Magna means his reign after FOTC, and then it's undoubtly true. Two defences against unranked opposition and then being bounced around by the first ranked contender. That's almost Willard country.

Even if you feel that Frazier became undisputed champ when beating Ellis (which I suspect you do), he only had one good succesful defence of five in total (one of them unsuccesful). Hardly stellar material that either.

 

Yes Armstrong was much greater no dispute.

I was comparing their styles and the fact that neither had a prime that lasted very long. Though I do think Frazier wouldve fought more had it not been for his eye problems.

 

Douglas was a revelation in the Tyson fight, but of course he was helped considerably by that lack lustre performance from Tyson.
If Liston had taken on a couple of other contenders before Ali he might be rated higher today?
Frazier was touched with greatness the night he beat Ali, that should be enough for any man.

 

I don't think I said it was entirely due to Tyson's performance.
Tyson did have him on the floor too.

 

Spot on as always,Bokaj. Terry Daniels and Ron Stander get far fewer mentions than Rudi Lubbers,for example.

 

Yep. And strange it is.

Have to say, it's a bit of a guilty pleasure this discussion.:yep

 

It is indeed. And that's no disrespect to the great Joe Frazier. More a putdown to those who've elevated him to Sainthood in recent years.

 

True.

 

What kinda question is this... ummm by winning some more of his key fights convincingly?

 

I must agree with McVey on this point.