How Much Better Than Klondike,Griffin,Martin ,were Jeannette,Wills,and McVey ?

Quite a bit I'd say. Klondike certainly was nothing special and I'd rate Armstrong and Childs ahead of him for sure. Griffin, it's harder to tell but if the Kennedy and Russel fights were on the level, and I have no reason to think not, then he, while good, was not championship class. Ask yourself this, if you took out the Johnson fights from their resume, what have they? If Jack was the late developer that he seems to be then they were just good journeymen/fringe contenders.
Martin is a different kettle of fish but the series with McVey and Johnson puts him in a slightly lower position than the later trio(IMO).

 

It is an excellent question, and i really hope Matt, or Janitor or someone with better knowledge than me on these guys attempts to answer.

Griffin has wins over Monroe, Johnson but he also has losses to Jeffries, Kennedy and Bob Jones.

Denver had some early setbacks, but went on a golden run which culminted in his world title victory over Frank Childs (who could easily be on your list) but his form seemed to pretty much end there. Although interestingly, he did have a win over mcvey mixed in with his poor results.

Klondike had wins over Jack Johnson and Joe Goddard before losing most of his form.

All in all, i would have to speculate that there was nowhere near the difference that people think between these guys. In fact, at their best, i might even give the edge to the earlier guys (Actual head to head results and record comparisons would probably bear this out or at least suggest there was nothing in it). But clearly the advantage lays with McVey, Jeanette and Wills in that they have far greater longevity.

It is interesting to wonder what this is related to, The drop in standard of the white challengers may be one factor, although i wonder if it is also possible that the success of Jack Johnson increased the box office drawing power of the coloured fighters, and therefore they maintained their focus and training much longer.

 

To be fair to Martin, he seems to have been totally past it by the McVey series (even though he actually won one of the fights) and if the Johnson fight puts him into perspective, surely that perspective relates to his 20 round decision with Johnson which puts him in close to perspective. IN fact, this is every bit as good as Jeanette and McVey would generally go against Johnson.

 

McVea, Jeanette and Wills are in a seperate class.

Of the earlier batch of fighters, Martin alone would bear comparison with the latter batch. Even in his case, I am satisfied that he is the weakest of the four in terms of resume. Interestingly though, he was arguably more highly regarded than any of them at his peak.

Griffin had the reputation of being sombody who could give the best fighters of the day hell in sparring, but tended to fall short when it was a real fight. He was always on the verge of breaking into the top teir, but it never quite happened.

Haynes was never realy seen as being world class.

 

Armstrong is such an interesting character. I know he wasnt mentioned initially but someone else mentioned him so I thought Id chime in. This guy just pops up, all over the world, for nearly thirty years. Usually as a sparring partner. Its pretty fascinating. Hes like the Waldo of the turn of the century boxing world. Pretty amazing when you consider that we have more footage (a lot more) of him, a black sparring partner (not to minimize his ability or standing) than we do of many of the greats of the first 50 years of the twentieth century. And that footage spans almost 20 years and encompasses most phases of his career.

 

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Just out of curiosity: Is it categorically proven that the third photo is actually THE Denver Ed Martin? The reason I ask is there was another Denver Ed Martin fighting in the teens who I have a photo of and he looks IDENTICAL to this photo. Now, its possible that his resemblance is why he took this name but its a hell of coincidence that two men fighting two decades apart in the same sport would look identical and that the original would be well known enough (by sight) for the second guy to take his name.

As I said, I have no idea, Im just curious. Particularly given such distinct features.

 

:hi:I believe Griffin a top notcher according to nat fleischer (50 years at ringside)He probably a notch below !st three.same for martin,cant say about klondike,get that book youll enjoy,GB

 

You would be woefully misguided then!

 

I meant Hank Griffin, sorry...

 

Nothing beats Klondike

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