How much credit do you give Tunney for winning his series against Greb?

First fight
-Greb by Tunneyside.

Second fight
-Greb probably deserved the decision based on contemporary newspaper acounts.

Third fight
-Apears to be a clear win for Tunney if the newspapers are to be believed.

Fourth fight
-The newpapers are divided so it is impossible to be certain either way.

Fifth fight
-Greb took a shelacking if any of the reporters at ringside could see past the ends of their noses.

So reading between the lines the series is 2-2-? or even from our viewpoint.

 

This is basically how I see it. Normally I'll give Tunney the 3-2 edge in the series, but not 4-1 as it is officially scored. Very close series from what I understand, with Tunney winning the last fight as clearly as Greb won the first. Greb saying afterwards to Tunney that he wanted no more of the series, but obviously being gracious in defeat as well, as he was past his prime and Tunney seemed to have figured him out by that stage.

 

In regards to their second fight, didn't Tunney himself say something about Greb being justified in calling the decision a bad one, and then gave this as a reason why he gave Greb another fight later in the year?

I thought I read that before.

 

The only fight Greb offically won was the first fight, and a clash of heads in round one that busted Tunney's nose, and cut him up is the main reason why Greb won the first fight. The first fight could have been ruled a NC under modern rules sets.

Tunney got the better of ther series 3-1-1, and it should be noted that Greb didn't not want a 6th fight with Tunney because in Greb's own words, Tunney got to darn big.

 

Some newspaper acounts suggest that the injury to Tunneys nose was caused by a punch not a headbut.

There are two sides to every story.

 

It was a butt. The damage was great. Never heard it was a punch.

 

Some newspapers said it was a punch.

Hard to be sure what actualy happened.

 

Whoa lets clear a few myths up here. 1 there were far and away more papers that felt Greb won the second fight. Even Tunney in his autobiography said he felt there may have been something to Greb's complaints which was why he gave him the third match. Tunney got rid of Doc Bagley after the first fight and got one of the most connected New York Managers: Billy Gibson (who was owned by mobster Boo Boo Hoff) to be his manager strictly to influence the judging in his fights. Period. Even Bill Muldoon, the head of the NYSAC said that Greb deserved the victory. Who felt Greb won? Sam Taub of the Morning Telegraph gave Greb 10 of the 15 rounds. Taub also complained that Tunney fought as dirty as Greb throwing at least a dozen low blows and constantly roughing Greb along the ropes. Ed Hughes of the Evening Mail called for "Sweeping Inquiry" into the decision. He also added that Tunney fought as dirty as Greb. Bert Dodge of the Newark Star again accuses Tunney of being the offender when it comes to dirty tactics, gave Tunney only the fourteenth round and, laid blame for the horrible decision squarely at the feet of Billy Gibsons influence. The Newark Evening News said Greb gave Tunney as bad a beating in the second fight as in the first. The Jersey Journal agreed saying that the only round Tunney won was, again the fourteenth. W. C. Vreeland of the Standard Union stated that a look of complete surprise passed over Tunney's face when the decision was announced the headline is: AFTER WEIRD DECISION, TUNNEY IS LIGHT-HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION: Boxing Judges at Garden Decide against Greb who had Lead on Points. Ed Van Avery of the Evening World had the bout a draw adding that Tunney did not prove he was the better man and that Greb fought a fairer fight than he had ever fought. Harry Newman stated that the decision was far too close to take Greb's title. The New York Trib voted it a draw. Davis Walsh writing for International News service felt Greb won, as did Grantland Rice, Charles P. Mathison, Sid Mercer, Warren Brown, and Louis Jaffe, all reporting newspapermen. Keep in mind this is Tunney's HOMETOWN and these are hometown writers most of them. The Pittsburgh Post was outraged at the decision calling it a gift. etc etc.

How was the verdict in the fourth bout split if there are three Cleveland papers, two of which vote for Greb and one calls it a draw? That means NO ONE voted Tunney the victor of any local paper. Thats not what Ive ever heard called a split.

Greb did not refuse a sixth fight with Tunney. In early 1926 Greb and Tunney were being matched for a bout in Miami that Greb was more than willing to sign. Tunney backed out when he was called up as Dempsey's logical next opponent.

Finally Janitor is correct, some newspaper reports state that the first punch thrown in the fight was a lightning fast straight right hand that shattered Tunneys nose in a spray of blood. Not a headbutt. Two sides to every story.

So yeah, how much credit do you give a guy who beat a guy that was blind in one eye, outweighed by damn near twenty pounds, handicapped by crooked judging once, and hometown officials three times. Kind of tells you how bad Greb beat tunney in order to get the decision in New York the first fight.

 

This is true.

Greb made the announcement on the morning of Feb 12th, 1926 while in Arizona for his fight with Owen Phelps, including him stating that he had made a deposit in a Miami bank to cover his end of the purse for the 6th Tunney fight.

"Phoenix-Greb, the middleweight champion of the world, who arrived here this morning, announced that he had agreed to meet Gene Tunney, Amercian light heavyweight champion, at Miami, Fla., in the latter part of March." - this quick quote taken from the Helena Independant, Feb 12, 1926, but the fight was also announced in the Chicago Tribune and other sources.

It was not a week later on Feb 18th that Greb, while in Chicago for a quick stop on his way home before the Flowers fight in New York, announced that he considered the fight off because of him not hearing anything from any Florida promoters in regards to the Tunney matchup.