How much credit do you give Tunney for winning his series against Greb?

goddamn, if there were films of any fights that were never filmed that i wish were filmed...

it would be the Greb-Tunney series.

 

Greb-Tunney 1 was filmed, it is presumed lost.

 

Who thought Tunney won? Well, for one the New York Times. For two, the officials. And for three, the crowd.

I have just read the New York Times report on the fight from Feb 24, 1923, and it certainly tells somewhat of a different story than you are telling. I am not sophisticated enough with a computer to bring the New York Times article here but I am certain someone can. Here are a couple of quotes:

"The majority of ringside critics approved the decision. However, they were not undivided. Like the spectators, the critics were not unanimous. While the majority thought the decision justified, there were several who expressed disapproval."

"Tunney carried off nine of the fifteen rounds." Tunney "with his furious assault in the closing rounds carried off the 12th, 13th, 14th, and 15th. In the 14th session Tunney almost floored his rival with a terrific right to the jaw. Greb recovered quickly, however, and resumed his peculiar style of battling, plunging and tearing in wildly, his arms swinging incessantly, but without any sense of direction. Tunney met Greb in one of the latter's rushes with a terrific right to the heart that almost doubled Greb in the center of the ring. The falling champion dove in and held tenaciously until the effects of the blow passed."

The round by round and general fight report describes Tunney starting fast with a fierce body attack, which might be a surprise to those who consider Tunney a "fancy dan", and building a strong early lead. Greb rallies furiously through the middle of the fight but Tunney's body work seems to have sapped him and Tunney takes the last four rounds going away with Greb resorting to frequent clinching.

The decision when announced was greeted with a tumultuous five minutes standing ovation for Tunney. Now it appears on the face of the story that while Greb had his strong partisians, the crowd was virulently pro-Tunney.

The New York Times didn't get into the "dirty fighting" debate, but given Greb's style and reputation, his supporters complaining about Tunney's "dirty" tactics might smell a bit of hypocrisy.

I just looked up the New York Times report because it is the only one readily available to me where I live. It does seem to shoot down the "Greb obviously won" argument.

 

I think it most telling that for the third fight Tunney went into the ring a 2-1 favorite. I think that tells you more about how the insiders really thought about this second fight than all the newspaper twaddle in the world.

 

Wow the Times voted for Tunney... I guess Ill dismiss the more than a dozen primary sources I cited, which include Tunney himself, in the face of that ONE article :roll:

 

This fight did have an official decision. Tunney won.

Tell me, though, if Greb was the obvious winner, why did Tunney go in a 2 to 1 favorite in the next fight?

You have done a great deal of reseach, but it seems to be one-sided to prove Greb was viewed by everyone as the winner when off the Tribune poll, less than a third of the ringside reporters saw him as the winner and opinions were split. The Times quotes ringsiders as favoring Tunney.