How much credit should Dempsey get for his controversial victory over Jack Sharkey?

I just don't see any controversy regarding Marciano. I don't feel like delving into semantics but he was on the other side of the color line, taking on all-comers. You can argue the quality of his era but not that.

 

This is a side issue that it is probably not productive to explore at this time, but there is a lot of racial baggage surrounding Marciano. Between Joe Louis breaking the color bar, and the rise of Wladamir Klitschko, you have a period of unprecedented dominance by black American heavyweights. This period is only punctuated by one white heavyweight champion, who was able to dominate an era. This standout therefore became a focus for the worst elements of the racial divide, on both sides, opening up old wounds.

 

You should start a thread to explore Marciano's role in the issue and his perception due to it.

 

You could even take it further, and relate it to the Klitschko's.

 

Get your eyes checked. You can't really see that last punch. However It looks like three consecutive right uppercuts to the body all in the same general area.

 

Ingemar Johansson ?

 

WHY WHY WHY S, so you can find flaws in Marciano to exploit your agenda ?. It is ruining the forum and the damn country in general when only one side is only targeted wrongfully to appease some holier than thou posters. Darn it leave Rocky Marciano alone in his grave, he was a decent human being.
Let him rest in peace, as you haven't done with Jack Dempsey.
Enough is enough !

 

What the fukk are you talking about here?

I thought Janitor was hinting at something very interesting. Marciano stands in history as the model of a fighter who took on allcomers based solely on their ability... and may be the first champion in the heavyweight lineal succession to do so. That he would receive some sort of flack otherwise intrigues me.

So, take YOUR agenda (which you seem to have so readily primed and loaded) and fire it at actual targets... not the ones that dance in your imagination.

 

A flash in the pan, and perhaps not the kind of white heavyweight champion that people wanted.

 

If "my agenda" is to NOT look into Marciano's background to find personal "flaws" in his character, and submit his legacy to
scrutiny outside of the ring, to serve no other purpose other than to show a possible "bias", well I feel that to discover some possible "flack" as you put it, doesn't intrigue ME or serve no purpose but to tear down a great fighter who cannot defend himself...Keep your cool. Summer is acummen...

 

Jack Sharkey was a consummate actor, looking for an Academy Award...

 

I will not start a thread about the controversy surrounding Rocky Marciano, because it might prove to be divisive. What I will say is that he divides opinion, because he was the only dominant white heavyweight champion in a very long period. There is a racial element to the controversy, and it is a scar left over from the color bar era in my humble opinion.

 

Yeah, I get what you're saying janitor.
I'm not sure its linked to the color line in particular though. But it is to do with Rocky's "whiteness".

For me, it's more like the Elvis Presley thing, on a lesser scale, with Elvis being "The King" of Rock n' Roll in the cultural mainstream, despite the fact that several black artists are easily as qualified for that title, at least.

Marciano was never really in that level of adulation, and of course, significant differences include the fact that in his day Marciano actually lived in the shadow of Joe Louis, a black man and apparently cultural hero to Americans across the board.

On the other hand, I've always argued that Marciano gets treated with double suspicion because he never lost a fight.

I'm not sure Marciano was ever really rated higher due to his whitenesss, by sports pundits OR simply as a cultural or popular figure.
As a hero to ITALIAN-Americans, yes, absolutely, and understandably.

Ultimately, I think sports champions, whether heroes or villains, have generally been judged on images and perceptions that are far more complex than race. And judge against who came before them too, inevitably. The heavyweight champions is a unique thing, when you consider the perceptions and images of Jack Johnson, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Muhammad Ali , it's far more than simply race-based, they were unique personalities each.

 

Yet, you jump to the accusation that I would be out to tear down Marciano by mentioning flaws in his character, which is completely unfounded and so far off the mark as to be ludicrous.

I am interested in Janitor to elaborate on his thoughts regarding Marciano and the color line. I am not entirely sure where he was going with that line or argument.