How much credit to you give Maxim for his win over Robinson?

Well, I give him more credit than is traditionally given him..he fought pretty much a minimalist type fight..about as honest and conservative as was possible and still be in the ring...if he intentionally let Robinson take the lead and eventually wear himself out in the heat that night, then his strategy was DIABOLLICALLY successful. I know that he truly didn't allow Robinson to perform against him so much as it was a negative/passive sort of strategy that let the heat just take it's toll. Like Maxim himself said, "what, did I have an air conditioner in there with me?" He deserves some credit because he conserved his strength and was there standing at the end...he endured, and Robinson didn't..a sort of "natural law" took affect.

 

No it can't, but to say Maxim stopped Ray is not how I would intrepret the fight's ending , and I am a fan of Joey.

 

I am too..I love fighters like Maxim, Jimmy Young, Sammy Angott, etc,. guys that use negative defensive techniques and strategies..Maxim truly didn't "stop SRR", but he manned up and endured the brutal heat and won a battle of attrition, so to speak..it was survival of the fittest, and Joey deserves credit for that, as it was.

 

Not sure why you're posting paper articles, it's all on youtube

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItB-BudS64w[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B96LUj6R_pQ&feature=related[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j-fPGIyLCM&feature=related[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV8lTKRrE_o&feature=related[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuXNkCZKPOc&playnext=1&list=PLA12B952EEB7863FE[/ame]

 

Pictures..videos too...are worth a thousand words.

 

Robinson ran out of gas.
I don't see why Maxim shoudn't get full credit. Where your opponent runs out of gas you're the better fighter on the night.

People say, "The heat effected Robinson more because of his style" or some crap like that.
At the same time they say "Robinson was landing all the punches"

Maxim stood up to Robinson's punches and kept coming. He gets no credit.
But Robinson gets a free pass for his failure to stand up to the heat ?

It makes no sense.
It's pure favouritism and bias.

Pound-for-pound Robinson was greater, but head-to-head Maxim was better.

 

I agree...the smaller man has to work harder. I think there was a 13 pound weight difference, which is a substantial amount.

But I give Maxim credit for the win...it was a win almost by default but still a win.

 

Ever since that fight it was practically engraved on the minds of fight fans by the boxing press...the scribes...that Maxim did virtually nothing and Robinson completely was domonating and completely outclassing him..and that the heat ALONE dissipated the Sugar man..and I say bull**** on that...Maxim deserves credit for pacing himself, staying in the fight and letting Ray wear himself out..and intelligent, if a negative one...yet Maxim proved to be the stronger man and the only survivor...so be it!!

 

Fair post.

But did Maxim know Robinson was going to run out of steam? At best, I'd say he was hoping so.
With only two rounds remaining and him hopelessly behind on the cards, I'd say that either Joey planned that strategy to the nth degree or (sorry to say) Lady Luck was smilling on him a fair bit.

His pacing himself and all that definitely contibuted to the win, not denying that, but I hope you see my point.

 

Stoppage due to the heat, whichever way you cut it, is hardly the most convincing way to beat an opponent. It's even worse than clash of heads causing a cut.

Maxim was outclassed but hung in there and picked up the win via a bit of luck. It's legitimate win but that's about all you can say IMO.

From some of the answers on this thread, you get the feeling that if Robinson had dropped dead of a heart attack on his stool, some posters would be giving Maxim 'full credit' for the win.

 

So every time a fighter runs out of gas, his opponent "got lucky" ?

I don't think so. If the fighter can't go the 15 rounds simply because he didn't have the stamina, or he fought the wrong fight in conditions, then he's second-best.

It's not like we're talking about a novice version of Robinson, an inexperienced fighter. We're talking about the highly experienced, highly accomplished, GREAT Sugar Ray. He'd been 15 rounds many times before. He fought in all sorts of conditions before, against all types of opponents.

 

Maxim, being a mostly defensive, negative type fighter, was going to be there at the end, whether it was an oven that night or whether it wasn't..he always aimed to be around at the finish come what may...to win or lose..and in this case, he could see gold at the end of tthe rainbow as the fight went on..maybe his diabolically successful strategy was improvised round by round...I can't imagine a canny, wise sage in his corner not suggesting to Joey that Robinson just might wilt in the heat..to bide his time and just take it round by round...and surely they must have been encouraged somewhat by referee Ruby Goldstein collapsing and having to be replaced by another ref. They must have sensed something unusual and unique was happening..and an opportunistic way to win was possible for their man. Maxim, a proven survivalist, would take every way to victory that he could take, and I'm convinced that Joey knew that all he had to do was just hang in there and impose his greater strength on Ray..just take everything that Ray could dish out. Maxim was in a very good position to see..to sense that Ray was weakening..and he followed his own nature to prevail.

 

Robinson was well ahead but ran out of gas.
Maxim outlasted him.
It's actually a very common way in which fights are won/lost.
Explain why in this case it gets treated as some sort of unusual freak event ......
..... we all know why. It's because it's Ray Robinson.

 

That's why the 15 roiund distance was so unique, important and neccesary in boxing tradition...it seperated the men from the boys, so to speak.

 

Exactly.
And as great as Robinson was, against the 175lb champion he wasn't man enough.
It's no shame. It may be sacriligeous to say so but he was human after all.