Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by PeterD, Sep 12, 2018 at 10:11 PM.
You've got Greb-Walker? I knew it!
I'll put in an offer like I'm serious with HBO for the rights to Tyson and use that as a base if no one can get us an answer.
We might could get some sense of what it's like to own the top from there.
I think the issue is that that money is spent on copies, not original reels, a lot of the time. I think the reels tend to degrade a lot.
I think the reason a lot of the old footage online is so bad is because it's stuff that's been copied from VHS to VHS so many times. If you had a first generation copy, even a digital version of it, it'd look way better.
So I checked e-bay. you can buy the below for $48.00 or less, buyer beware you need a power cord. Nothing rare here, maybe the Godoy fight is uncommon as long as it not vs Joe Louis
New ListingEleven Super 8mm vintage BOXING FILMS
Eleven Films all on Super 8 mm film from 1925 thru Frazier-Ali III. Also including: Dempsey, Tunney, Heeney, Gibbons, Baer, Braddock, Carnera, Loughran, Ross, Armstrong, Zale, Graziano, McLarnin, Canzoneri, Ambers, Valdez, Jackson, Moore, Johnson, Patterson, Marciiano, Louis, Robinson, Lamotta, Schmeling, Walker, Godoy, Frazier, Ali, All in Good Condition. Projector included, but missing power cord
Ending Sep 20 at 7:57PM PDT6d 13h (Thu, 10:57 PM)
or Best Offer
This content is protected
Im not sure what you are talking about. I didnt say my collection was worth $20,000. I said thats what Ive spent on films in the past 8 months or so. I dont know what my collection is worth nor do I care beyond the fact that I know its worth something, and worth a lot to me, and that if I spend $500 on one film put it on youtube, Amazon, or whatever, its suddenly free because it can be capped and shared the world over. You know this because you are a member of the WBVA. My collection is worth what its worth to me. If you think Im bragging about my rarities thats your perception. I said thats what I enjoy collecting. I also made it clear that some things that I collect I cant imagine anyone else having any interest in. In fact, I have no illusions over the fact that outside of a few boxing nerds, if I were to find a Greb film there wouldnt be much interest in it outside of being a curiosity piece. If I say Ive got something rare and you take that be bragging thats on you. Ive said many times over: Im not special, anyone who devotes time, money, and effort to this hobby can have what I have. My biggest issue with people like Butt is that I started this hobby with nothing, literally. I worked very hard at it, over time spent a lot of money, and devoted a lot of time to it. Literally anyone can do what ive done if i can do it. But Butt wants me to do all the work, invest all my time and money, and then sit back and enjoy the fruits of my labor. And make no mistake, despite his protestations to the contrary thats exactly what hes crying about. So for me to merely say I have this or that is not bragging or dangling some carrot. Just go out and get it it. And this all presupposes that I have an interest in marketing films or delivering them. I absolutely do not. My collecting and my ability to find films already makes me money. I have no desire to work harder than I do, take a gamble that I might make a little more money, and dump my entire collection on the net. Im smart enough to know that the sport is too small, and interest in old obscure films is too small to really be able to make such a setup worth exposing it to pirates.
No, you are wrong. An original film of Harry Greb would have less value, not more, if that film were featured on YouTube. This is because the vast majority of people just want to see Greb fight. Owning the film itself is just a pain in the ass. Its big, bulky, nearly obsolete, and prone to issues in regards to preservation. Most people, and I mean 99.999% of people dont care about film, they care whats on it. If they can watch it on youtube for free the mystery is gone and they are less likely to pay what you paid to be able to see it.
As a distributor you don't care about that anymore than HBO cares that Mike Tyson is all over Youtube. The money isn't in rarity of views. The money is in being the sole owner of distribution rights. With distribution rights all those Youtube videos pay you. All those Amazon upload pay you. You don't even have to police it, bots take care of that.
I think I just misunderstood or misread you, but either way, what you're talking about is illegal. What I am talking about is the legal rights. Mike Tyson is all over the WBVA, and youtube. Mike Tyson's film distribution rights still hold weight, and if you tried to acquire them from HBO you'd spend a pretty penny. Much more than a collector spends to have copies, much more than piracy absorbs.
Actually, ya know I didn't mean to try to talk you into doing anything. I thought you were interested in selling the lot and figured I should tell you what I intended on doing with them while taking you up of the offer to sell. Give you the opportunity ya know?
If you're not interested in who has distribution rights, and/or you're not interested selling there's no reason for us to speak. I didn't intend on trying to convince you of anything, I intended on talking to you about selling to me or helping you figure out who has distribution rights so that you can be the distributor if you like. If neither interest you we don't have to argue....that's pointless.
I do feel obligated to tell you I am not unfamiliar with distribution rights or television. I've been on Showtime, Channel 4, Discovery, TLC, Netflix, and my work is on CBS's CSI. I'm a prosthetics inventor who has done some hollywood props. If you're assuming and have no experience with the industry maybe you ought to listen a little more than you tell.
A film thread that involves something more than each side arguing.
Klompton did you get the Niccolino Locche fights from Archivo-Di Film/DiChiara? I remember a couple of years ago sending an email to to them enquiring about full Locche fights and they replied by saying that they had some but it would cost(dont remember the amount to transfer the films for 8 mm or 16 mm i dont remember exactly) but at the time i didnt had the money so i didnt follow through with it. Recently i send another mail to them and this time they said that they dont have any fight of Locche and that they dont know anyone who has it,the way they responded made it look like i was asking for anything illegal FFS.
Anyway would you consider selling any Locche fight or is just something you're not interested in?
You are talking apples and oranges. You say you were talking about me selling the lot AND distributing them. Those two things are, legally, mutually exclusive if I dont own the rights. I never made any claim to owning rights. But if I own the film there is nothing illegal about me selling that film. Dont agree? Go to ebay and have a look. Furthermore, no “collector” owns the rights. Even Jim Jacobs and Bill Cayton owned only a fraction of the rights to their collection. They would have you believe that they owned the rights to every film ever made but thats simply not true. I know for a fact that they didnt own the rights to ANY IBC films, they didnt own the rights to anything prior to 1923 (those have all expired) and they didnt own the rights to films whose rights owners didnt refile their copyright prior to the new law passing in the 1970s. Thats a sizeable portion of their collection for a guy who historically was thought to have cornered the market on the business. But, back to my main point, remember I said if I own a film and its on youtube my film is worthless. If I own the only copy of a film and its not on youtube, whether I own the rights or not possession is 9/10ths of the law. Who is that film worth more to? Me, the guy who owns it? Or ABC who may own the broadcast rights but dont have the film to broadcast? Its not illegal for me to own that film even ABC doesnt. So whether its ABC or a collector all roads lead through me to get the information on that film. In regards to piracy, you dont think the cat is out of the bag? Youtube halfass tries to police pirating but there are literally thousands of copyrighted boxing matches on youtube put there by channel owners who do not own the broadcast rights. That ship has sailed and everybody knows it. HBO would be like the little dutchboy if they went after everyone who pirated their stuff. Itd be a full time job just doing that. They made their money off of those fights initially and get a little extra revenue licensing legacy footage to documentarians etc who want to do it legally on a per second basis. Theyve washed their hands of the pirates unless it conflicts with their current programming schedule, i.e. ppv rebroadcasts. So if HBO cant make it profitable to stream, exclusively, their catalogue of boxing matches that they own the rights to, why would I even entertain the idea even if I did own the rights. Even Don King, who was the most aggressive pursuer of rights violations has basically given up with the explosion of youtube. So whats the one takeaway from that if guys with deep pockets have resigned themselves to it? That once its on youtube the game is over and your options have now been drastically limited. Thats why I steer well clear of youtube.
All of DiFilms Locche fights are on youtube. You can watch them for free.
I know they are!! they have been there for a while but its not full fights, they said to me that they had the full fights in their archive a couple of years ago and now they say they dont know anything about full Locche fights.
No they dont. Daniel must have misspoke. Whats on youtube is the most complete versions of the films they have.
Great thread. Very interesting.