How much does George Foreman's comeback effect your ATHvywt ranking of him?

If he never fought again post Young, I would have him below Liston and 'ironically' Frazier, at around 13-17. Post comeback, and I believe I had him at #5 the last time I did a list. At one time I had him behind only Louis and Ali.

 

Resume wise guys like bivins and charles **** all over him.

His greatness is almost entirely based on his 20 year turnaround. It's phenomenal enough to offset a poor resume (but one including wipeouts of frazier and norton).

He has one of the greatest achievements and his victory over frazier is the best in the division's history imo. His resume lets him down but he's still top 5 in my book.

 

I rate him fourth or fifth.

 

After ali, louis, johnson and holmes I have it between frazier, lewis and foreman for 5th place.

 

I think when rating greatness there is something untangible, an X factor, a mojo, somthing that makes that fighter unique. After all if it was all numerical and their was a perfect formula then we would all have the same list, the only list.

How each person rates that special factor is usually the difference between lists.

Joe Louis with his most defenses.
Marciano being undefeated.
Patterson/Tyson (depending which way you argue) being the youngest ever heavyweight champion.
Foreman and his comeback.

Almost every all time great heavyweight has a certain quirk that makes them different in terms of achievement, I think Foremans is one of the most impressive.

 

atsch

 

Well said my man.

My only issue is we can't allow this mojo or x factor be something non-tangible. It has to be real and not built primarily out of myth. Cough cough Dempsey.

Yes, some could argue Foreman has that to a degree, but we would probably disagree. His achievement is real and special, despite some of his losses during that comeback in his 40's. Those can be far more overlooked when you look at the bigger picture.

 

Yeah like pete says... Foreman has a tangible destruction of a prime top ten atg and a tangible ko victory 20 years after losing his title.

Unless a list is entirely resume based I can picture leaving him out

 

I agree that Foreman's achievements are truly great, but was Frazier really "Prime" in '73? I'd say Frazier was never Physically Prime again after charging face-first through hell to achieve victory in the greatest Heavyweight war in history. Not only is it clear from filmed performances that Joe was Past-Prime (particularly speed & reflexes deterioration) from the serious permanent damage his soaked up in the FOTC, but surely you've read that big article posted in the classic several times, about how physically ****ed-up Frazier was after the '71 Superfight?

 

Yeah I think he was prime.

 

The comeback elevates Foreman a lot.

He'd be in the same category as Riddick Bowe, as someone has already said, if not for the comeback.

 

In a head to head case, not much at all. In a legacy sense, a lot.