How much footage of a boxer would you need to feel comfortable ranking them h2h?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Rubber Glove Sandwich, Apr 23, 2022.


  1. Rubber Glove Sandwich

    Rubber Glove Sandwich A lot of people have pools Full Member

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  2. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s Full Member

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    In a H2H sense, no film breaks it for me. About 30 minutes or so is good enough if it's against good calibre fighters. But rating them, well you can always rate if you do enough digging. If you don't have film of them chances are you might have film of there opponent's that can help with the H2H process. One that makes me miserable is that this is all we have of Venice Borkhorsor...
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  3. thistle

    thistle Boxing Addict Full Member

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    NONE!!!

    there is PLENTY of COMPARABLE Footage of Greats & TOP Fighters to allow for 'Cross Record Checking' - Who fought Who, how they did Win or Lose and times the other multiple TOP & Noted Fighters they fought.

    it isn't science, it is simple research, assessment and conclusion - science enough - so to speak. this is How History is Observed and Understood.

    MOST GREATS and TOP Fighters until the 1950's were never seen on Film... "mores the pity".
     
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  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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  5. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s Full Member

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  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    What about him?
     
  7. djanders

    djanders Boxing Addict Full Member

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    If that was all I had to go by, I'd want 2 or 3 good fights somewhere near the fighter's prime, against ranked competition.
     
  8. The G-Man

    The G-Man I'm more of a vet. banned Full Member

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    I think he means there’s very little footage of him(only one fight as far as I know) yet he’s rated by most as an elite fighter-rightfully so-but the topic nuances the question.
     
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  9. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Personally for me. I at least want to see two or three fights in their entirety against medium to high level competition.
    For me highlights are just what they are, " highlights " . It's so easy especially today to take a few great moments of a fighters career and make him look like the greatest fighter in history.
    But when watching a fight in their entirety, one sees the good and bad traits a fighter has.
    Then I can have a reasonable and accurate opinion of what the fighters abilities are and how those abilities match-up against other great fighters .
     
  10. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s Full Member

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    This.
     
  11. Moggy94

    Moggy94 Active Member Full Member

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    Pretty much most of their fights, if no footage there's no point because then it comes down to all myths mostly
     
  12. Bronze Tiger

    Bronze Tiger Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I would like to watch at least one victory and one defeat
     
  13. thistle

    thistle Boxing Addict Full Member

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    NO it doesn't, it comes down to RECORDED REPORTS and Cross Record Checking... the amount of tangible & accurate information is staggering for most TOP Fighters... and as you do with any research you gather, compare and conclude, often just as good an assessment as any footage.

    Which I stated before 'IF' some opponents of said fighters are filmed then that only adds to to the assessing of the fighters where no film is available.

    it is both obvious & simple, the Recorded History lays it out CLEAR, if you've got enough of it, and for TOP Fighters there is more than enough!
     
  14. Moggy94

    Moggy94 Active Member Full Member

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    The way the sport was viewed way back then is totally different to now as the sport has evolved, What the reports may have been claiming was great speed, technique etc really might not have been at all,it just was for then.

    Sometimes it's better when you don't actually see certain things because it never matches the hype.
     
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Oh aye, Burley is elite. How many people would have rated him as such based purely upon that footage without the accompanying testimony of Archie Moore, Joe Louis and the rest is a question but probably not a very interesting one...

    My point isn't that though, my point is that categorising someone as "an elite fighter" and "ranking them head to head", which is the thread's question. I'll have a pop but anyone claiming to know how Burley would perform based upon that 10 minutes of footage probably just doesn't understand fighting. It's enormously complex to pit a fighter of Burley's apparent depth of pathology against someone like Bud Crawford and come back with anything that reflects the emerging reality.

    Most people would have been foxed by fights on the Fury undercard this weekend i'd bet, and there is hours of footage available. Obviously for anyone who thinks they have the goods on Kid Gavilan vs Holman Williams, quit your job because there are literally millions to be made.

    H2h is a bit of fun - anyone who thinks they have a proper grasp of Charley Burley's performance against the wider field from welterweight to heavyweight based upon that snatch of footage is kidding themselves IMO.

    The only guys I really trust are the Footage Thread guys, because i've hundreds of posts in there myself and I know the level of concentration required to put out your scorecards in that way, but even then, i'm aware that scoring a round and taking heed of where a fighter likes to place his left foot when he throws a southpaw hook, and how that might intercede with a counter-jab to that punch from orthodox isn't necessarily what a person is paying attention to.