How much (if at all) did Roy Jones's losses change your view of him, ATG?

I think he got old overnight. I still can't believe Tarver got him. Unbelievable!!

Had he retired after Ruiz I believe he's a lock for Top 10 P4P. Maybe even considered Top 3 and possibly the GOAT.

Dude was a phenom and I miss watching him at his peak.

 

I think Roy's career might be significantly overhyped even before the Tarver loss. The Ruiz fight was seen as a bit of a freakshow fight at the time iirc, and people generally just wanted him defend his belts against actually decent challengers. Roy's run at 160 was extremely brief, he spent only 9 or so fights at the weight and his only notable wins there are a very green B-Hop and Thomas Tate. His 168 run was his best imo, but even that that had its faults, his best win at the weight, James Toney was very weight drained going into that fight. He also never fought McClellan, Benn, Eubank, Frank Liles, or Collins, instead defending his title against guys like Tony Thornton, Antoine Byrd, and a faded, blown up Vinny Pazienza. The 175 Roy reigned was, imo, one of the worst LHW divisions ever. Roy was noticeably slower at LHW and wasn't as untouchable as he was at 160 and 168, he got dropped and very visibly hurt by Lou De Valle, one of the worst title-holders in the bistory of the LHW division. The idea that he was impossible to hit or that his chin only cracked after the Tarver fights are myths. His wins over Montell Griffin and Virgil Hill are both good, but he really should have fought the man who had just beaten Hill instead, Dariusz Michalczewski, who was ranked the no. 1 contender for nearly Roy's entire stay at 175 yet who he never fought, meaning he was never lineal champ despite being gifted the Ring belt. De Valle, Harding, and Reggie Johnson are all good wins but none were really great talents and all were very beatable. Ruiz is a good win and is a historically significant achievement but was also the easiest belt to grab at HW, Ruiz had just gone life and death with an ancient Evander Holyfield, and was coming off one of the dirtiest fights of all time against Kirk Johnson, where both men head-butt, wrestle, and low blow throughout only for Johnson to get DQed while up on the cards. Roy also ducked a rematch with Hopkins after B-Hop unified the MW titles. I think his post-Tarver career might have even helped Roy's standing as an ATG, because it means you're more likely to look back at his prime with rosy glasses and exaggerate what he actually accomplished compared to the dire state he would end up in, slumped on the canvas against the likes of Enzo Maccarinelli. Roy was a great fighter, no doubt about it, but his level of competition wasn't all that great imo. He wasn't fighting nobodies, but he also didn't fight a couple important somebodies.

 

The losses hurt him significantly had he retired after Ruiz fight he would've had barely any competitive fights out of 49 contests, and would've dominated an era for over a decade and would probably be ranked in top 10 of all time.

 

PEDs are a bigger blight than his losses. Because that casts a shadow over his wins.

 

It is amazing that when a relatively young talented fighter loses, he is past his peak or prime. Not to be critical but there are fans who cannot accept the concept of defeat.

 

His chin wasn't an issue for 15 years and 50 fights of his pro career. His losses changed the perception of him big time. Had he retired after Ruiz or gone out on his shield vs Lewis or Tyson in one final payday, it wouldn't of been bad. I wish he would of fought some of the other guys at 168 (where he was his best IMO) who were with King or the UK promoters or fought Michalczewski at 175, or been a two division champ and keep beating guys at 168 and 175 until 2004.

For me, it didn't change my perception of him, he was the best fighter I've ever seen in the last 30ish years.

 

He was the most amazing fighter I'd ever seen for an entire decade in the 90s.
The KO losses that came later put question marks there. Now when I compare him in fantasy matchups against the greats, I don't know if I can pick him any longer.

Back in the 90s, I would have favored him against anybody. Moore, Charles, and even Robinson, but now I do not know where to rank him and I wonder if he had a suspect chin all along. Perhaps his big punch and ridiculous speed and athleticism "hid" the chin weakness.
I don't know.
Other times I think dropping all that weight too fast did it and his body never recovered. Or was it age that slowed him down to a mortal and made him more hittable?

It's sad in a way that someone that amazing at one time ended his career the way he did.

 

Nothing Roy did after the first Tarver fight even registers for me TBH. That first Tarver fight showed that once he came back down, he simply wasn't Roy anymore.

That fight he literally got old in one night. It was really night and day.

 

A little more than many other hall of famers in the past. In his prime he did not look for the challenges like the fab 4 and Benitez did ( for example), so when they lost as they got older you could excuse it because they gave us so much before thta. Roy Jones Jr. was a legit great and his speed was probably the best I have ever seen, but to me those losses did make a difference. I never felt he won the heavyweight title. Ruiz was a handpick.

 

Regardless of who he didn't fight. He still fought a lot of exceptional opponents. Hopkins was solid at the time not the great he would become but the likes of Hill, Toney, Macllum, and Griffin all had something to offer despite the various circumstances of each it's not like they were all gimmes.

Even some of the lesser fighters like Gonzalez and Hall were unbeaten when he faced them and that should always count for something in my book.

Jones looked brilliant against the tough Clinton Woods who would go on to have some great fights with Glen Johnson and then Ruiz happened. A brilliant cherry pick really a big tough limited heavy VS a guy with the handspeed of a feather and fantastic physical attributes.

After that fight prime Roy was never seen again. The ability to put everything together had left the system there were flashes but we became accustomed to seeing him steadily soaking up shots. After Tarver KO'd him that was it.

He never beat a top fighter again - time waits for no one not even Superman.

A brilliant fighter at his best. A H2H nightmare for anyone.

The defeats when well past his best don't hurt him too much,. He nearly pulled off a great comeback but got caught by Lebedev.

 

A good subject for discussion: Guys who could take a punch until someone knocked them out. And then they developed a china chin.

 

Tarver gets a lot of credit taken away with the Roy got was never the same post Ruiz narrative. But if you watch the second Tarver fight Roy looks fantastic - like the Roy of old until Tarver times him. It’s a great win for Tarver. And it destroyed Roy’s confidence.

 

He’s still the greatest fighter in my lifetime