how much more would calzaghe have to do to get the respect he deserves?

The rap on the guy has been he avoided challenges, was a protected fighter, with inferior competition.

It's not selective, I don't doubt Calzaghe called out Jones subsequently. The argument involving Joe Calzaghe doesn't center around whether Calzaghe's resume is perhaps among the atg resumes, it's whether or not it belongs to an atg to begin with.

When a guy flat out says he doesn't want tough fights, just big money....... says he'd wouldn't want to risk fighting a guy...... risk what? His wbo belt? His "0"? His life? That's what fighters do.

Now, I'd never, ever call any fighter a coward, they do what they do and get paid to do it because guys like us can't. But to me, those comments show a relevant tendency to avoid the biggest challenges available to him. Which has been the knock on the guy forever. These comments show that at that particular time in his career, his prime, he was unwilling to take certain risks....

Is it a stretch to think this isn't the only time in his career he would have done that?

Without getting Freud in on this and looking at his moods and such, might it not be just as simple as he took the path of least resistance? Especially in light of his penchant for pulling out of fights, not wanting to leave Wales for ages, the lack of serious world players on his resume, Frank Warren, his book, his own quotes......

That attitude goes completely against the expectations we have of the ATGs of the sport.

 

Hopkins defenses were over much better opponents. Its a fact. Hopkins tested himself against a prime Jones before his reign even began. Hopkins destroyed a young Johnson. No amount of money would put Slappy Joe in the same ring with Johnson. Hopkins called out everyone and would fight anyone that would bring in the $ for over ten years and was avoided like the plaugue. Joe defended his lightly regarded title against bums and avoided all challenges for his entire career.

You fools are deluded.

 

so you will be in agreement that hopkins cowardly ducked calzaghe in his prime then des?

who is it that you feel calzaghe ducked?

 

Hopkins did all that but refused to fight Calzaghe when offered a large sum and the chance to fight in america?

 

Your biased. You don't recognize how truly great Woodhall and Veit were. Look what he did to Manfredo!

 

ha ha ha ha the argument centres around c level glen johnson again

****ing priceless :nut :rofl

 

Every big challenge that presented itself for ten years. He stepped up once when he fought Kessler and one more time for Hopkins. The bulk of his career was against carefully chosen bums, has beens, and other regional level guys.

 

This will be the 'young Johnson' who in his subsequent ten fights lost six times, with two of his four wins coming against guys with losing records?

 

Johnson, Ottke, Hopkins, Woods, Tarver, Trinidad, even Keith ****ing Holmes or sloppy Joppy. Anyone. Most of Joe's career was one euro bum slapping another euro bum. If he wanted a fight with legit guys he could have forced the issue buy capaigning for a unification or making the small jump to LHW for a legit challenge. He didn't. He could have faced one of the young guns on the way out. He didn't. People will criticize his accoplishments(very little compared to Hatton, Leonard, or Hopkins for example) because of the choices he made.

 

Johnson was robbed in euroland repeatedly. Johnson faced a far more able stable of fighters in his career. As such he has had a much more accomplished career than Joe.

 

Four of the six defeats referenced were in the US. I'm not sure where you imagine the borders of this country you call 'euroland' are atsch. Ottke beat him clearly. Don't remember if I ever saw the Branco fight. According to Glen Johnson he was robbed a lot. But he's not exactly an unbiased source.

You last sentence is just absurd.

 

it's not who he ducked necessarily as who he fought?? people levy the argument against jones but you don't have to struggle to validate his opponents.

calzaghe really fought 4 legit opponents in his life: reid, hopkins, kessler and lacy.

arguments against their credibility can be made against hopkins and lacy but they were legit comp

4 opponents in an entire career, only one of which is a HOF, at the end of his career isn't spectacular.

 

It certainly seems like Hopkins ducked Calzaghe back in 02, 03 or 04.(Not sure when)

But I wouldn't call him a coward.

I've always said there are many, many reasons fights don't get made.

Same goes for Joe.

I often hesitate to use the word duck for any particular fighter, as I said, lots of reasons why fights don't get made. If what I've read about Hopkins and those negotiations(not to be confused with HOPHINS) is true, it certainly doesn't look good.

As for Joe, I can't be arsed(as you boys say) to dig and find who I believe he may or may not have ducked, with the exception of Jones. And I don't want to talk out of my arse either by throwing names out there that don't fit the bill. Maybe there were a few guys, maybe none. He may have been somewhat the victim of poor timing, as well as his own urge to pigeonhole himself(stay at home, not venture out of smw, not wanting the toughest fights).

I will only say I do not believe the only guys he could have fought were the guys he did fight. All I can do is look at the names on his resume and when he fought them.

In the end, he fought who he fought when he fought them. Beat them all, 46-0, which is a great accomplishment, but the list of opponents is underwhelming IMHO, regardless of who is responsible for it.

 

Kind of what I was looking for.