How much of a slickster was James Toney?

Agree with you man. Toney had his moments against Peter in the rematch but many rounds neither man really did much, it was boring. I give Peter credit for rematching him but Toney really had his last hurrah in the first fight. The second fight was awful to watch.

 

He was pretty slick.
It didn't help him against Roy Jones though.

 

He still made him miss more than I've seen a prime RJJ miss before. RJJ was great himself too.

 

If Holyfield was a better favourite,it was based off of his name and Toney being untested at the weight.Tyson was a betting favourite in his last two fights,too.


Holyfield had looked completely shot going into that fight and his performance against Larry Donald after this fight was so pitiful that the NYSAC revoked his license to fight in the state.

 

It might have been al bernstein that said on one of toney's fights that roach said he passed out twice to make weight for the drake thadzi fight and that he would not fight at 168 anymore.

 

True but 5 years later Holyfield still won a belt even a shot stage, unlike Tyson(Valuev was probably the worst hvy champion of recent times but still). That fight was a very stinky robbery. It's a shame Holyfield goes on but if it pays his bills/child support then I can't be too unhappy.

 

So because Toney has a style that is pleasing to the boxing purist, we allow him every excuse he wants.

He signed the contracts for 160 and 175 and he got his ass beat both times. Period.

A bad night is drawing against Sanderline Williams on your way up, not being ill-prepared as champion.

 

Lets see against who he was at his slickest :

Iran Barkley - some claim he was drained at 168 , when Toney won his title.

Charles Williams - another drained fighter at 168 , although Toney was drained too by that stage , but nonetheless , according to compubox , Williams outlanded Toney in most rounds .

Evander Holyfield - 41 years old at the time they fought , and in the middle of a losing streak after which he never fought in serious elite fights never again. Valuev , and probably Ibragimov carried Holyfield .


A few more of Toney's best wins :
Michael Nunn - drained at that stage at 160 , Nunn , like Williams , managed to outland Toney in most rounds , only in a different style.

Vassily Jirov - came out of 18 months layoff , not that I think it was important in its effect on the outcome. The scorecards surely were way more lopsided in Toney's favor than the fight actually was , but I can see why Toney won (the KD and I think a 13th round could have made it clearer)

I do reckon that Toney's chin is one of the best if not the best P4P.
Hagler was down at 160 too , but Hagler never went above that weight , let alone so far above.
I do reckon that Toney's technique is one of the most effective under the rules of boxing and I too am of the belief that under the rules of boxing and in a good (for him) condition , he would have beaten the grossly overrated cheater in Bernard Hopkins.
Roid Jones would have never signed the contract to fight Toney if he didn't know Toney was far from being able to fight at 168 by the time he signed the contract.
I also think Michael Nunn would have outpointed Toney in a not so telling manner if Nunn wasn't drained.
Barkley and Williams would have both fared better if they fought Toney at 175 , and if you think about Toney at 175 , it would probably have been far better.

In Toney's defense it can be argued he was drained against Reggie Johnson , David Tiberi and Drake Thadzi but was still very competitive .
Reggie Johnson fought quite a smart fight , and to this day remained the closest to stopping Toney , he charged after Toney rose from the KD , but was unable to finish the too tough Toney . I think watching this fight is one reason to why Roid never tried being aggressive at any point of their fight .
Toney took steroids but so did Roid , Evan Fields , Tyson , Mosley , Pacquiao , Ali (testosterone) , Vitali Klitschko and really almost everyone since the late 1980s I think , although some took them much earlier .
And then you have the sepparate question of HGH.
Donald Curry , another technical specialist was not able to remain unstopped , unlike Toney , so I think ranking Toney above Curry , which is underrated BTW , is safe.

 

Slickest fat guy I've ever seen.

 

Yes Holyfield was well past his best when Toney fought him, but i still think it was a good win...

 

atsch:verysad