How much of Ali's greatness was luck?

Every great warrior in antiquity, every great king and sultan in the middle ages, every great general in modern history, every great fighter who ever stepped into the ring.... acknowledges through word or action that there is a large black unknown that he cannot control for. Weather, illness, the glare of the sun, a soft spot on the canvas, or any other x factor, forces them all to hope for luck.

"Luck" is on the flip-side of greatness, as much as "virtue" and "resources".

Ali, one of destiny's children, surely had what we would call "luck".

 

Ali was winning the fight against Foreman prior to the stoppage. Nothing lucky about that KO whatsoever.

And, even though Ali was exhuasted against Frazier in the third fight, he still had controlled the last three rounds, and had beaten Frazier's face into an abstract portrait in the process. Yeah, Frazier wanted to come out, but Ali would have been there to face him. So again, no luck involved in these fights....

 

If you have one of the five best heavyweight resumes of all time then it stands to reason that "luck" has probably played a significant role.

We can identify "luck" as a significant factor in the sucess of Louis, Marciano, Dempsey, Johnson etc.

 

I do think there was something almost along the line of providence in Ali's career, but I think you're naming the wrong examples.

For example, with just a little bad luck he would have lost against Doug Jones and against Norton in the rematch, and that could have seen his career take a very different path. He was also "lucky" to have as great a cornerman as Dundee. Dundee kept his head cold in for example the first fight against Liston when Ali was blinded and wanted to quit.

I also believe he had some luck that Quarry suffered a cut in their first fight. Ali said he'd already began to tire badly at that point.

 

which norton rematch? i thought he was worthy of the second but the third was a robbery

I dont consider him to be a three time heavyweight champion because he should not of got the decision against ken third time

 

In chess there is a saying: "A good player is always lucky". Maybee that goes for boxers too.

Woller

 

American football coach Darrell Royal said "luck" was when "opportunity" and "events" crossed paths.

Ali made his own luck.....George & Frazier could have won those 2 fights....but they didn't.

 

Yes, he was a worthy winner, but how many times haven't fighters lost close decision like that when they should have won?

 

He won the title for the third time against Spinks. But I see what you mean. If he lost to Norton his career, more than likely, would have panned out differently. But he's officially a three time heavyweight champion, and the three wins were all achieved fairly.

Only one rematch, not two. The third fight was a rubber match.

 

the luckiest thing that happened to Ali was getting appendicitis before Liston 2. Listons trainers felt that was the best shape he was ever in or ever was. the first fight he wasnt up for it then he was up for the rematch but after it was postponed he couldnt be arsed.

 

Personally, I think that's a load of bollocks. By the way, I've heard people use Foreman's injury that postponed the fight in Zaire as an excuse for Foreman losing that fight.

 

i disagree with you i think liston was at his peak

 

It's not so much luck as being the most profitable athlete in the world for years on top of the worlds most recognizable. So of course things are going to lean towards your way when in doubt, everyone profits from such a thing happening.

He had more close calls then you can count, verdict is.

Any things that worked in his favor...

Verdict wise, several of his fights very easily could have been losses, some so much so as to be called borderline robberies.

Him having a corner that pushed him out and won him fights. Liston I and Frazier III.

A iffy stoppage against Lyle, who was leading on the scorecards.

Foreman being cut badly during sparring and having an entire nation against him, making him paranoid to the point of a mental breakdown. Also, ridiculously loose ropes.

 

'Sugar' Ray Leonard has been equally, actually, far more so, scourned for seemingly coming out of his career 'lucky', but it was both his and Ali's ability to 'adapt' that sealed their greatness.

No luck.