How much of Ali's greatness was luck?

Ali was brilliant at creating distance on the ropes to give himself long range punching room. Obviously the slackness of the ropes helped him to create that distance. But his 1-2's straight down the pipe were usually as clean as a whistle.

 

Your analysis of both fights is a bit off,Lunny.

 

To say the least

 

Luck works both ways...Good and Bad....talent pulls you out

 

True. Talent, courage and equally in Ali's case, a very cagey corner in Dundee.

 

Sometimes luck is a big factor which defines one great fighter from another.

 

I don't know what fights you're talking about because ali didn't win any of those fights by luck, he won them because of heart and skill. He was winning against foreman, landing clean punches while avoiding most of foremans head shots. Foreman was clearly winding down from all of the punches he threw and ali took advantage with straight punches as foreman was coming in.

In the frazier fight ali found his 2nd wind and gave frazier a terrific beating, closing his left eye and forcing him to come out of his crouch. This only meant more punishment and possible serious injury. Eddie futch made the right call when he stopped the fight.

How you could call that luck I'll never know and you definitely need to watch those fights again.

 

If there is such a thing as luck, then people make their own.

Ali had Foreman from the opening bell.

Frazier had some good middle rounds in Manilla, but Ali was winning the fight.

 

I disagree with this sentiment. To digress from the sport of boxing for a second.. I remember an interview with basketball players Charles Barkley and Magic Johnson on TNT inside the NBA about what makes a player "Great". One of the things mentioned, was that when clutch time comes around and there team needs someone to step up or they would get a loss, the greatest players rise above the pressure of the moment, because they know and operate under the simple fact that the script is unwritten. They MAKE happen what they needs to happen.

In the Chuckster's words "Somebody's gotta be the hero... it might as well be me!"


This makes a lot of sense with the greatest boxers in the sports history in my opinion, and Ali might be the poster boy for this concept.

 

Liston was in shape for the rematch but the postponement took his edge.
PS It wasn't appendicitis it was a hernia operation.

 

It's possible that the postponement might have made Liston lose some edge, but if you believe that he would have even come close to winning without it you're way off. Ali clearly showed in both fights that he had Liston's number.

 

i think he'd had one as a baby too.
i don't think sonny would ever have beaten ali although liston was getting on a bit when they actually fought.

 

For Ali, a degree of 'luck' might be assumed.

Luck: for having a few extra seconds to regain his faculties in the Cooper fight...

Luck: for the 'monselle solution' not allowing Liston to KO him....

Luck: for the loose ropes in Zaire....

Luck: for Frazier not facing the 15th round in the THRILLA...

Luck: for what ever reasons or excuses fans can think of!!!!

Ali had a turbulant career.

Was he lucky to encounter, Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Shavers, Holmes etc. in the same era???

Was he lucky to lose his finest years to being exiled??

Was he lucky to be left in the current state post career??

Ali faced a huge amount of 'luck' through his career, most of which is manafested dribble.

Being able to witness his career via film and script... we are the ones with 'LUCK'.

 

How much of Ali's greatness was luck? Great question.

In terms of greatness, I would say zero of it was luck.

In terms of winning key fights, I would say Ali was indeed lucky.

Ali was lucky to have Dundee in his corner for two key fights. The 1st Cooper fight, and the first Liston fight. Ali was close to being Ko'd in one, and quitting in the other. Dundee took control and avoided disaster. Had Ali lost either fight, its hard to see him being called the greatest.

Ali was lucky on judgment calls by ring officials were the 2nd and 3rd Frazier fights for illegal clinching without serious warnings / or a point deduction.

There might have been some luck in the Foreman fight. Foreman hated being in Africa, and was vilified from the moment he steeped off the plane. When Foreman was cut in sparring, the fight was postponed a while. The additional stay in Africa likely ate away at the sulky Foreman’s focus. In the ring, the ropes were defiantly lose, and the out door arena prematurely sapped Foreman’s stamina. Had the fight been in the USA, with normal ropes in an air-conditioned ring, the result could have been different.

The Lyle fight was interesting. Ali was behind on points until landing a hard right cross late in the fight. While the stoppage was all right, I think Lyle could have been given a few more seconds. Lyle was in the lead, and covering up well enough. Lyle’s corner was very angry with the stoppage.

Ali was flat out lucky to win a points decision over Norton in the 3rd fight. The Young fight, Jones, fight, and Shavers fight went Ali's way too. While I think Ali won the Jones fight, the Young fight and Shavers fight could have gone the other way.