I’m thinking of the following fighters here: Jack Johnson Jack Dempsey Muhammad Ali Ali is consensus no. 1 all-time at heavyweight and makes most people’s all-time p4p top 10 so his reputation still appears to be secure. A few decades ago, Johnson and Dempsey would have been right up there in all-time heavyweight and p4p lists but now seem to have slipped down the list in a lot of people’s eyes. But in their own time and for considerable numbers of years/decades after they fought, they were considered the two greatest heavyweights ever. Their impact on the sport was huge. How much weight should be given to the ‘out of ring’ influence that certain fighters had alongside their in-ring accomplishments?
Impact should be considered regarding who we remember and consider legends and pioneers of the sport. I think that is seperate from who we regard as the best. Dempsey is more impactful to the popularity of boxing than Holmes or Lewis but based on actual accomplishments, you have to rank Holmes and Lewis ahead. This does not mean Dempsey isn't a legend of the sport. Any boxing encyclopedia should mention Dempsey (in detail) because he is both a pioneer and hugely impactful. I consider those 2 seperate categories. Who the greatest fighters are isn't necessarily the same thing as who the most impactful fighters are. Greatness should be based on all round skills, perceived h2h ability, accomplishments and quality of opposition beaten and sometimes hard to define x factor. Impact is seperate.
And to be fair, Dempsey is an all time great. Top 10 or top 15 heavyweight based on his ability, h2h, and accomplishments. But he didn't accomplish enough to have any reasonable case for top 5. I don't consider impact on rankings otherwise i would bump him up to 5. Right now he is about #12 for me.
It's up to the individual to choose their own criteria. Impact nor profile factor into my ATG rankings, at all.
A bit tbf. Particularly in the case of Jack Johnson and Dempsey. They're undoubtedly ATGs. Without any sensible argument to the contrary.
Those guys are all great without factoring influence. I personally don't factor influence/fame in my rankings. I've never seen the reason to do so.
