How much would Langford, Jeannette, McVey, and GunBoat Smith add to Johnson's legacy

Not much, he'd beat them, he already beat them. It would just add a little more depth maybe.

 

People would then call him a great champion as well as a great HW.

 

1. No draw as it was a no dec -6 rounder.
2. No tko as it was a sparring session.
3,The draw with Johnson happened because the champion broke his arm.
4.That "journeyman" beat, Jeannette twice , and drew with him,drew with Langford twice and drew with McVey,he also beat Pelkey ,and Wills, and Jeff Clark twice.
If he was a "journeyman" so were they.

I was going to respond further but actually I just can't be a*sed:-(

Same sh*t ,different day.:zzz

Haters got to hate.:deal

 

He beat all of them but smith who was a sparring partner that couldnt quite prove he was an outstanding challenger so not a lot. A little more but not much.

 

Taking it on a case by case basis:

Langford was not yet a major player in the division when Johnson beat him, and improved a dramatically afterwards to become the dominant contender of the era. This win would have been a potential game changer, and could have elevated Johnson’s standing considerably.

Johnson had already dominated a pretty good version of McVea three times, and you could argue that he didn’t need to do it again. Another win over McVea would have meant very little, unless it happened in the brief period where McVea held the coloured title, and was probably the outstanding contender.

Jeanette improved a lot after Johnson beat him, but he was never really a standout among the contenders of the era. In order for this to be a major addition to Johnson’s legacy, it would have to have happened at a brief high point in Jeanette’s career. Otherwise it would just be like beating another white hope.

The same argument again is true of Gunboat smith. In order for the win to be a Major addition to Johnson’s legacy, it would really have to happen in a window after he had beaten Sam Langford. Otherwise he is just another white hope.

 

Langford undoubtedly improved, but so did Johnson both gained muscle and Johnson had the added confidence of winning the title.Stylistically Johnson is wrong for Langford ,imo and Clay Moyle agrees with me . :think

I wonder if the first Smith v Langford fight was kosher?
I have my doubts.

 

Personally I think it was.

It sounds like Langford underestimated Smith, turned up badly out of shape, and paid the price.

Smith said that he knew that he had the fight won, when Langford took his robe off.

 

Luckily for him, they do anyways :happy

 

Do you think he was a great CHAMP?

 

It should not be in question, even if you don't rate him highly among other great champs.

 

Although it would add to his legacy, not as much as one might think. Johnson clearly beat Langford, McVey, and Jeannette before he became champion, dropping all three of them several times. So if he beat them while he was champion, I imagine a lot of Johnson haters would say, big deal - he just beat guys he beat already. As anyone who read my books knows, politics, economics, and race in part prevented Johnson championship matches with these men.

Johnson said, "I bar no one when I get my price. Moran’s backers met my terms, and all the others have the same chance as Moran. I understand that Gunboat Smith defeated Langford. Here’s the gunner’s chance to get a crack at my title.
The public wants a white man to be my successor. I am ready to fight ‘em all, and bar no one, at $30,000 apiece."

Believe it or not, the powers that be who were trying to get Johnson beat did not really want a Gunboat Smith fight because they thought Johnson would beat him. They thought Willard's height, reach, size, and strength would match up better. Of course, Smith went and got dq'd against Carpenteir, and then got KO'd by Langford, so then it became a nonissue.

 

What is understood from those who watched these men live in action was Johnson was head and shoulders above them all. This escapes those trying to degrade the Johnson legacy. The guy was a phenomenal once in a lifetime talent. Fleischer rated him the best but those who worked with him thought different pointing to his lack of facing prime Langford etc as a reason to lower his standing. After Nat died he went from first to second place all time hwt champion. So with everything considered not a huge drop.

 

Excellent post.!:good

I just read the Ring#s take on the modern175pounders which you were involved in.Good stuff!

 

Do we agree that Langford is the one name on the list, that might have been a real game changer?