How problematic are Walcott and Archie Moore for Joe Frazier?

Says he would never in 100 million years call Joe Frazier overrated.

Calls Joe Frazier overrated in the same sentence.

 

This for me

 

Frazier is eighth on my personal list behind Louis, Ali, Johnson, Holmes, Marciano, Lewis and Foreman and ahead of Holyfield and Fury. I don’t think that’s calling him overrated. I certainly danced on a razor’s edge trying to avoid using that word. But all you need to do is search out these “Frazier vs. X” threads. There are people who seem to think Joe would take out any human being that’s put in front of him, if not King Kong himself. If that’s not overrating, it’s at least being a bit unrealistic. He’s not the greatest heavyweight boxer who ever lived.

 

Lol just because he's 8th on your personal list of favorite fighters (which isn't particularly high mind you) doesn't mean you can't think he's overrated. Larry Holmes is my 5th favorite fighter (after Liston, Frazier, Patterson, and Holyfield) and I think he's overrated.

You literally said "folks on this forum sometimes go overboard with him like he was just this unstoppable, ever advancing T Rex with a left hook who all things being equal would chop down anything placed in front of him through sheer will, heart and determination, or die trying."

You also stated "There are people who seem to think Joe would take out any human being that’s put in front of him, if not King Kong himself. If that’s not overrating, it’s at least being a bit unrealistic. "

If you think people place him on a pedestal that's unrealistic and are rating him over what he's worth (which the above quotes clearly indicate) then by definition, you think he's overrated.

 

In recent weeks and indeed months the actual catchcry has been how little traction gets in dream fights and that he rarely ever wins any of them. On the whole it's true. Guys like Tua, Ike and any amount of other non greats actually get some traction against him let alone fellow ATG's. Some think anyone with a huge punch and a heartbeat would beat him.

So for me these people you mention are in the MASSIVE minority and there are way more who actually hammer down on him in H2H matches.

 

JJW is fit for ANY Heavyweight in history...

Moore, No, he is a natural L-HW, but is good enough to entertain most anyone.

 

I am just more pragmatic about Boxing than many on here, in most instances it's all there in the ACTUAL Fights, the Reports and contemporay consensus - so & so, is a Great Fighter, win or lose, in their Longeviety at the Top, their Opponents, their Skill & Craft, and the circumstances & realities around their careers and/or opportunities and fights.

it's usually a simple study, but on Open Forums people can & do complicate thigs with a whole lot of fluff and overstatement.

Simples - usually.

 

OK, I'll own it. I think he's overrated. And my list wasn't "favorite fighters." I actually think the people I listed are the 10 greatest heavyweight champions of all time. I don't particularly care for Marciano, Holmes and Holyfield. My "favorite" heavyweight fighter is Floyd Patterson and he ain't sniffing the top 10.

 

Point taken, I'll cast more discerning eye but the egregious examples seem to be the ones that pop out at me. Like Frazier knocking out Lewis. Lord Cardigan in Crimea and Custer in Montana had heart and determination.

 

Moore could give Frazier something early but Joe would grind him down probably a bit sooner than Marciano. Frazier was just as relentless as Rocky but much more precise and accurate.

Beside that Archie's legs would never hold up to the pace Smokin Joe would set.

 

Walcott will go farther than Moore but I think worn down as well. He might hurt Joe but he could never stop him from coming forward.