How Realistic are these "facts" about Liston?

For whatever it’s worth, Geraldine Liston was born 25 Jan 1925 and I don’t know if anyone would have necessarily pegged her as being virtually 40 yo herself as at the time of the first Ali fight. Sonny actually looked a bit older than her imo.

 

Re Liston’s reach.

The lowest listing for Williams I’ve seen is 79”’- on the tale of the tape for the Ali fight - though I have read higher.

Running with the min. of 79”, roughly speaking, that would give Liston 2 1/2” longer per arm (without factoring shoulder width etc.).

Unless you look closely that difference isn’t going to be hugely noticeable - and Liston’s arms were that bit thicker than Cleve’s so they might not have appeared as long (as William’s arms) in their own right.

I’ve frozen Liston on film a number of times, punching at full stretch, especially the jab - and imo, Liston’s reach advantage over Williams and Ali is discernible - and clearly extraordinary.

Just to able to even see a difference, Liston’s advantage per arm would’ve had to have been at least 1 1/2 to 2”.

Also, Liston’s oversized gloves (custom?) are patently obvious as compared to the gloves worn by all of his opponents. With some obvious hyperbole, Ali said that Liston’s one fist was the size of Ali’s own two fists out together.

In respect of physical equipment, save for height, it was as if Sonny was genetically bred in a laboratory for the singular purpose of fighting.

 

If there had been an "I do not know" choice, I would have chosen that!

 

Yeah photos are clear he had massive fists but still don't see anything showcasing what would be an honestly out of whack 84" reach to 6'-6'1" height. His hands would nearly hang past his knees.

I suspect promoters weren't sure how to advertise his massive mitts and just tagged on several inches to his reach to prove he was built freaky.

 

Fair points but I’m not sure exactly how far Liston’s arms (given a reach of 84”) should hang.

You could obtain an average % of total height to calculate shoulder height and knee height and the difference between the two.

But then, you have shoulder width to account for also (and chest size, depending on how the measure is done) and the fact that our arms don’t hang perfectly parallel to our bodies.

Finally, we hold our hands partially furled, not with our fingertips stretched toward the ground.

Re shoulder width. Even if Marciano retained his actual arm lengths (T-Rex arms) , if he had shoulders like, say, Max Baer, it would’ve added several inches to his reach measurement.

Imagine the reach measurement for Talking Heads front man David Byrne if his shoulders were actually this wide? His reach might’ve approximated to that of Sonny Liston. Lol.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...pQrdkwrjZEmEn6kEvUXFtDQ6ndkdl&id=115260057506

 

I once knew a girl who could suck a golf ball through a 30 foot hose - but she could also chew apples through a picket fence. Ah well, you can’t have it all.

 

taking into account people's inclination to guess African Americans older than they actually are and the fact that Liston lived a pretty hard life, I mean didn't his dad used to whip him? those kinds of things can cause premature aging, in regards to the 40 age I would say 34-37 is probably more realistic

 

Byrne shows off his cardio here. You can also see his practical reach around 1:35:

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Exposed! He must’ve shoved towels under that jacket - just as Liston did, underneath his robe.

Despite the illusion, his reach was same as it ever was….same as it ever was….

Seriously though , what a performer that man was - David Byrne that is.

 

I've always thought Liston's height was considerably stunted due to lack of nutrition as an adolescent preventing him from reaching his full potential.

The fact that his hands, reach, legs, are unproportionally much larger than his height, seems to suggest that.

 

Well yes, relative to many of his other physical attributes, Sonny’s height would appear to be the anomaly - the exception to the rules otherwise.

To estimate, given the physical attributes you mentioned, Sonny could’ve equated to a 6’4” to 6’5” tall fighter - and not just an average size for that height range - rather, a BIG 6’4” to 6’5” fighter.

They def. pumped up Liston’s fist size from an original 14” - 14 1/2” but, I think a lot of fighters fist sizes were inflated - causing, imo, an under appreciation of exactly how big a 14 1/2” fist would actually look like.

Not easy to measure your fist. I measured mine once and got a bit over 12”. They don’t look out of the ordinary, perhaps just a bit wider palms than average.

Anyway, Foreman’s uniform listing of 12 1/2” is a joke - Foreman has huge hands and even he expressed due awe re the size of Liston’s hands.

They listed Ali hands as 13” but his hands appeared smaller than both Frazier’s and Foreman’s tbh.

I believe 6’ 5 3/4” Carnera’s fist size was 14 3/4” - so, as compared to Liston fist size, a much of a muchness - but Da Preem was 4 3/4” taller than Liston and giant sized overall, even for his great height.

 

Okay, listen, I guess we're not all American here, so I'm not going to rush to decisions about if you know what you're asking or not but just you asking me this is a HIPAA violation. I need you to know that. This is PM/DM talk, not open-forum talk.

 

I recall seeing 'Stop Making Sense" in the theater with my Brother & his friends. Them dancing in the aisle.
I was a guest in seeing him on Broadway for "American Utopia".
Heavily talented, with many different creative & art projects over the years-including an old, huge ceiling building in NYC you pulled levers to "play".

His cardio is helped by being a skinny Mo-Fo lol!

Also about Liston's arms-how relatively long his upper & lower legs were effects how long they hang.
But really with his width even if he had a 7' wingspan his arms & naturally held fingers would not need to hang all the way to even the ops of his kneecaps.
Thing is while that measurement is possible, so is something @ 80".
Based on the Total Visuals & compared to other fighters, likely more-though we do not know.

 

Byrne would have been great at weigh-in smack talk.

Sonny Liston steps on the scale and raises his arm to show off his long reach.

Byrne: I’ve got a girlfriend that’s better than that!

 

And that is the oldest sonny looks in the 1950 photo isn’t it? Almost 20. Sonny looks extremely boyish in 1950 and the 1956 photo seems to be in line with the 1930 census. As @swagdelfadeel says Liston looks closer to 26 in 1956.