How Realistic are these "facts" about Liston?

Excellent find! He was listed as 22 in the arrest report if I remember correctly. Arrest was January of '50 which indicates a birthyear (according to the police) of 1927.

Let me see if I can find it.

 

@Pugguy

"SUSPECT'S SHIRT KEY TO ARREST

Because he wore a bright yellow and black check woolen shirt, Charles Liston, 22-year-old Negro, living, in the 1000 block of O 'Fallon St., is being held by police as a suspect in two robberies in the past week. He was picked up near his home early yesterday by a beat policeman, because the shirt answered the description of one worn by one of two bandits in the $40 robbery of a service station attendant Friday night. While being questioned, he also admitted that 25 minutes before his arrest he and two other Negroes had held up the Unique Cafe, 1502 Market st and obtained $37, officers said."

Source: Clipping from The St. Louis Star and Times - Newspapers.com

 

That is a good find.

It doesn’t fit any of the census results though does it?

 

Good stuff. I remember reading that article before.

I’m almost sure he was reported as 20 yo elsewhere but can’t recall the exact source - the primary police report perhaps.

Anyway, I know we’ve thrashed this out before on a previous thread which would be easy enough to find and link BUT always fun to revisit and discuss freshly again.

Below, see the link to the FBI file on Liston.

I’ve read it through before. Interesting stuff with several terrific newspaper articles included.

Some pages of interest: -

6 of 50

Listing of Liston’s arrest in 1950, # 63723 - same number shown on the earliest mug shot.

8 of 50

Physical description - 6’1, 230 lbs. Build: Medium. Medium? - Lol.

14 of 50

Liston, notably described as being born in 1927, one of 25 children….etc.

I know it’s a reach, but imagine if Liston’s YOB was mistakenly listed as his age (viz: ‘27) on the 1950 census - Liston was incarcerated at that time.

Anyway, a very interesting and fun read. Enjoy.

https://vault.fbi.gov/Charles (Sonny) Liston/Charles (Sonny) Liston Part 1 of 3/at_download/file

 

Re 1950 arrest mugshot - hard to say re Liston’s age.

However, one might look at Sonny in 1950 and then in 1964 and perhaps decide that Liston appeared to have aged quickly during that period - more than just the 14 years between ‘50 and ‘64.

Even Liston’s appearance in the 56 mugshot vs his appearance in 64 might seem to belie the fact that there was only 8 years separation between the two “versions” of Sonny.

 

His reach was measurable. His exact age unknown. It seems that as time passes, the accounts of his age get wilder and wilder. I think someone on here once said that he was possibly in his 40s when he fought Ali in 1964 which would have made him 50ish when he lost to Martin. I don’t doubt that he was older than his reported age during his boxing career but some of these accounts are a little dubious

 

Some claim he aged 10 years between the second Patterson fight and the first Ali fight.

 

Ali accused Liston of being 40 in 1963/64.

It seems there was a strong word going around at the time that Liston was a lot older than he admitted to (official YOB 1932, as per belated and self filed details).

The problem was, anyone who suspected same never gave any solid reason why they thought Liston was older.

Even Jerry Izenberg said that “everybody” knew Liston was older - but Jerry said nothing beyond that. Ridiculous.

Some celebrated journos/historians are very sloppy and irresponsible with the information they choose to circulate without having made due checks and acquiring related proofs.

Raconteur, Bert Sugar , was a good one for peddling unsubstantiated stories also.

 

Liston was reported as being 32 for the first Ali fight I believe. If someone had told me he was actually 35 then I would have believed it. But if people claim that he was 40 then I’d need to see proof.

 

I think the issue is Liston himself didn't know how he old he was? Which wasn't too uncommon for someone born into a black sharecropping family in the first half of the 20th century.

You see that today still with some soccer players coming from Africa who don't have birth certificates but are found out to be several years older than what they claimed. It's generally always a benefit for a prospect athlete to claim to be younger than not.

 

In 100 years, they’ll be telling tales about Ali beating a 60-year-old Sonny Liston who had a 100-inch reach.

 

He’s actually still alive, living in England and fighting under the name Dereck Chisora. Must be about 120 now

 

Yes, I’ve always thought he really aged a lot between 1956 and 64. A hell of a lot. Almost unrecognisably so. But then he never looked much older after this.

 

Yeah, but the reported 32 yo was based on details that Liston himself filed for a birth certificate in 1953, I think.

So, as proof, it’s kinda circular. I think Liston had to apply for a birth certificate in relation to either his AM or PRO career - I think it was for the former, competing in the Golden Gloves to be specific.

Otherwise, sure, rumours are not enough either - but, at the very least, we know there were obvious rumours in circulation for even someone like Ali to pick up on.

Ali commented on Liston being “old” on a number of occasions and, via poetry, stated him to be 40 years old on at least one known occasion.

Notably, no one from the era who claimed Liston to be older, bothered to elaborate more on the subject.

Some people partially base their opinion of Liston looking old on his appearance post Miami - but Sonny was beat up and tired - that would put a few years on any of us. Lol.

 

We are never going to know. It’s a pity. All we know for sure is he was old enough or looked old enough to go to adult prison in 1950. And he was old enough to go to school in 1946.

scary to think they put him in a school with children in St Louis when he might have been in his 20s.