Interesting you've both picked fighters who are very lazy as arguments against. Clottey had success against Pacquaio and neutralised him but only threw about 10 punches around. I'd maintain if Clottey had more heart to actually throw punches he'd beat Pacquaio. Abraham always fought at a very slow pace, didn't move much and didn't punch much Fighters like Quartey and Winky Wright are far better proponents of the style and they out did fighters like Trinidad, Taylor, Mosley, Delahoya by using it Well I'd disagree with Tunney on that statement because he hit him plenty, maybe he meant though that he only hit Dempsey with his best shot 5 times I don't know Louis and Dempsey were not too adept at cutting off the ring
If Clottey opened up more pacman would have stopped him. He was miles ahead of him skillwise that night. Probably his last great performance; completely shutting out a top 5 contender.
No Clottey just doesn't want to fight and has Golota like meltdowns. He was beating Baldomir and fouled out when the going got tough, he was beating Margarito for 5rounds and folded, he had the measure of Cotto but barely threw anything, he hit Pac at will but didn't want to get hit himself so didn't throw any punches Clottey is more skillfull than Pacman and no way would Pac be able to stop him. Clottey like Judah just lacks balls to seize the day I picked Clottey to take Pacquaio to a close decision and was embarrassed by his performance, he still could have beat Pac with the right mind set
You're crazy. He was an excellent counterpuncher and used an aggressive defensive style that made him incredibly hard to hit... ...AGAINST bigger men. However, his aggressive style did lead him to get caught more against small, quick opposition such as Carpentier or even Tunney; however, that's because his goal was to win by KO as soon as possible.
How the hell is Clottey's stiff, gloves up defense more skillful that Pacquaio? I've never seen a guy with Clottey's style have any success on film back in the days where people had smaller gloves. That's not say that this is necessarily what protected Clottey, but you sure as hell don't win many fights by locking yourself up and absorbing a beating. Clottey doesn't have 1/4 the skill of Pacquaio.
Dempsey was one of the most skilled come foward pressure fighters in history. Don't get me wrong, his combination of speed, power, and quick feet didn't hurt, but he also was an excellent counterpuncher and made his opponents pay everytime they missed with a shot. And when you pay against Demspey, you might be out in one shot.
That's absolutely my interpretation of Gene's meaning. Tunney shouldn't be expected to be referring to his jab in this context. Countering was more Joe's thing as I see it, waiting patiently for the other guy to make a mistake and leave an opening Louis could exploit with his shorter shots. For some reason, I often think of him catching the deadly Retzlaff lunging in with a left hook, and nailing Charley with his own shorter hook.
Personally, I think the thoughts and words of championship-quality fighters who actually shared the ring with him carry a bit more weight than the judgements made by some ESB postors from only seeing Dempsey in grainy, black-and-white film.
bruce lee used the falling step in jack's championship boxing book for his one inch punch demos. that book is scientific fighting. very skilled.
It's only recently that it's become fashionable to acknowledge that Marciano had a decent amount of skill. Even during his own time, close observers were failing to see it, fighters who went in the ring with him came out scratching their heads and saying he wasn't half as easy to hit with an effective punch as they had expected. Opinions of the men inside the ropes do matter, even if they are skewed a bit and open to doubt. However there should be no doubt that Jack Dempsey was a skilled fighter, of championship quality. Just because Gene Tunney (a greatly skillful boxer, in my opinion) beat him clearly doesn't mean it was an easy task at all. And that was a Dempsey who'd almost certainly lost a lot through inactivity.
Yeah, they do matter but some leave you scratching your head. Have you heard what Tunney said about Dempsey beating Marciano, Charles and Moore in one night over ten rounds? Tunney also said Dempsey was the greatest fighter (or HW) of all time. What does that make Tunney, the man who beat him? Someone on here said Tunney said such things to boost opinions of himself because of the way he beat Jack. Not all quotes are great to get an opinion of a fighter. Dempsey was skilled, his book is proof of that.
Sure, Tunney said some silly stuff. I'm not saying what he says should be taken as gospel. He said Joe Louis could outbox a gorilla. Yet I don't see why he would claim he found it hard to hit Dempsey on the chin with a right hand (which I think was what he actually said) if indeed he was hitting a wide open target all night. Anyway, yes, Dempsey was skilled. I'm not sure his book is any proof of that. The fact that he was a world champion boxer who could outpoint and KO contender-calibre fighters is actual proof.
