How the Classic Forum rate Rocky Graziano ??

With you on this mcvey.
He was a tough old boot in a fight but certainly no great.

 

Lol The Beast!

 

That's probably why Sugar got his so fast.

 

Oh I agree 100%, Hagler ruined Mugabi. Mugabi was one of my favorite watches during
the early 80's .His dominate run through those tough Philly - Jersey middleweights was
only bested by Hagler himself.
Pre Mugabi Hagler and post were two different animals.

 

There’s like around 10 fights where Jake gave up more than 3 pounds dating back to his days as a 4-round preliminary guy. And most of those were either just a few pounds or he had a significant experience/record edge. A few were at the very end when he was fighting light heavyweights and very small heavyweights as he was just looking for a few bucks and no longer viable as a contender.

On the other hand, he routinely came in over 160 pounds while having weight advantages of 8, 10 and even 15 pounds over his opponents.

A look at some of his major weight advantages over welters upon whom he built his record (not even bothering with several fights where he was more like 5-6 pounds bigger):

Tommy Bell: 9 3/4, 10 1/2, 13

Charley Parham: 8 1/2

Cecil Hudson: 10

O’Neill Bell: 6 1/4, 7 1/2

Fritzie Zivic: 11 1/2, 8 1/2

Johnny Walker: 9 1/2

California Jackie Wilson: 16

Jimmy Edgar: 7 3/4, 10 3/4

Bill McDowell: 8 1/2

Only one of his fights with Ray Robinson was fair by weights, and in it LaMotta was heavier by 4 1/2 pounds.

The others, Jake was heavier by: 9, 9 1/2, 15 3/4, 12 3/4 and a whopping 16 pounds (the only one he won).

That’s 20 fights against massively undersized (by comparison) welters. Myth, lol. Some of those are literally super middleweight vs. welter.

These are what is known as facts. Your boy is the original weight bully.

 

Don't be like most folks and judge a fighter by watching a clip...

 

Beat me too it, I also think he's far closer to Arturo Gatti than an all time great fighter. Both had A+ entertainment value thou

 

????

So instead should I judge him by what people (who never went to any of his fights) write about him on a forum and turn away whenever footage of his fights are available to watch?

 

The big difference between LaMotta fighting welterweights and Graziano fighting welterweights is that LaMotta was fighting welterweights that few guys wanted to fight while also actively seeking out the best middleweights and light heavyweights. Graziano was fighting second and third rate welterweights and ZERO rated middleweights and somehow (mob connections) climbing in the ratings by doing it. Trying to compare fighting the likes of Robinson, Bell, and Jackie Wilson with the Harold Greens and Billy Arnolds of the world is comical. Does anyone for an instant think wed even know who Graziano was if he had fought Robinson, Bell, and Wilson in nine fights on the way up?

 

He isnt "my boy " and he fought loads of class middleweights including several members of the Murderers Row like Holman Wiiliams ,Basora,Lytell,Booker

He isn't my boy .Lamotta took on ranked middles like
Dauthille x2
Villemain
Welch
Basora
Lyttell
Williams
Marshall
And TOP Welters.
How many did Graziano face?
If you cannot see the difference that's on you , oh and you know where to shove your sarcasm don't you!

 

A bit overrated because Zale was past it.

 

I wasn’t posting about Graziano. I was posting about LaMotta.

I outlined 20 fights for you — and yes, there are more — where he had weight advantages of 6-16 pounds over welterweights he fought. That’s pretty significant.

Yes he fought some good middleweights. But even then he more often than not had at least some weight advantage. Jake had 106 fights and outside of world title fights where he HAD to make 160, he came in at 161 or lighter in just 36 of them. Go look up how many of those fights against middleweights outside of title fights where he was a de facto super middleweight (actually in his day, there was no such division so he was a bona fide light heavyweight) while fighting those middles.

And of those 36 where he was within a pound of the middleweight limit, many of those were actually fights against welters where he still had around a 10-pound weight advantage. That’s fact.

LaMotta was the original weight bully. (In fact, even late in his career he’s fighting guys coming in around 160 while he’s closer to 170.)

 

Graziano wasn’t all that special, no doubt.

But defending LaMotta fighting guys he outweighed by 10-16 pounds, no matter how good they were, is a joke. He was a weight bully.

“Oh, he beat Robinson.” Yeah, once, when he had a 16-pound weight advantage lol. The only time he fought Ray where they were truly even close to the same weight, Jake got battered and stopped.

 

He also fought Ltheavies and Heavies as well

 

at the highest level he was very average. he was tough and he sold tickets, which is the entire point of the profession.