How the dominant heavyweight champions lost their crowns, and did people see it coming?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by janitor, Mar 1, 2020.


  1. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    There has been a lot of speculation on this forum, about how certain champions who retired on top might have met their eventual fate, if they had hung on until they were beaten.

    In this thread I am going to look at how the dominant champions of history were dethroned, and whether it happend in the manner that people expected.

    John L Sullivan

    Who did it - James J Corbett

    How expected was it - If people knew that it was going to happen, Corbett would have been seen as one of the more credible candidates to do it.

    Jack Johnson

    Who did it - Jess Willard

    How expected was it - Pretty unexpected from what I can tell. Johnson was a strong favorite, and Willard was not seen as an outstanding challenger.

    Jack Dempsey

    Who did it - Gene Tunney

    How expected was it - Tunney was seen by many as being the greatest current threat to the champion.

    Joe Louis

    Who did it - While nobody took his title in the ring, the series with Walcott persuade him to retire.

    How expected was it - Pretty unexpected really. Despite his recent run of form, Walcottt was not very highly regarded, and was not seen as some sort of outstanding threat.

    Muhammad Ali

    Who did it - Leon Spinks

    How expected was it - Totally unexpected. You could probably have picked half a dozen men who would have been seen as a greater threat to the champion.

    Larry Holmes

    Who did it - Michael Spinks

    How expected was it - Pretty unexpected. There were a few contenders who were seen as a greater threat to the champion, and Spinks was seen as something of a safe defense.

    Mike Tyson

    Who did it - James Douglas

    How expected was it - See the betting odds. You could have found half a dozen men who would have been seen as a more credible threat.

    Lennox Lewis

    Who did it - While he did not lose his title in the ring, the Klitschko fight persuaded him to retire.

    How expected was it - While Klitschko was the underdog, he was seen by many as being the best available challenger.

    Wladamir Klitschko

    Who did it - Tyson Fury

    How expected was it - Pretty darn unexpected. Fury was not that highly regarded back then, and had not beaten anybody of note.

    Conclusion

    When a dominant heavyweight champion is dethroned, it happens in an unexpected manner, far more often than not!
     
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  2. Eye of Timaeus

    Eye of Timaeus Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I expected Vitali and Fury to win tbh. I knew Fury was very good from seeing his early fights and the Klitschko's were always highly regarded.
     
  3. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    It's mostly age related. Sometimes it's just getting caught by a puncher.

    I don't think Johnson or Dempsey were dominating champions, they avoided the top competition as champion, and the majority of their title defenses were either vs the too small or not very good in general.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020
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  4. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    defenses against too small or not very good.....sounds like Wilder
     
  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Wilder was never a lineal champion. Just an alphabet champion. But there are similarities in picking weak title defense opponents.
     
  6. Naked Snake

    Naked Snake Active Member Full Member

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    Johnson went like 26 rounds with Willard in the scorching heat. It might not have been expected to them back then but to us with common sense it was inevitable
     
  7. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    A myth. Havana in April is about 76 degrees on average with a monthly high of 86.

    Willard's body punching hurt Johnson and slowed him down, almost finishing him with a body shot in round 25. Before that round, Johnson had gas left in the tank. Reading, Willard's corner told him to pace himself. Johnson went for the stoppage a few times but could not hurt Willard. The filmed rounds, what's left of them show a close fight.
     
  8. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I felt Fury really could be a threat to Wlad. Wasn't that surprised to see him win.
     
  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I totally was.

    Fury is one man who I underestimated.
     
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  10. Naked Snake

    Naked Snake Active Member Full Member

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    Even Willard complained that it was hot. I was more getting at the 26 rounds though. After 26 rounds (of a projected 45!) it's not surprising the tank wasn't there.

    Also, 76°F that's like 24°C right? That's a hot day in Britain let me tell you
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020
  11. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Maybe this will come as a surprise to you, but Havana can be very humid, which makes it drastically hotter than the temperature indicates. Same old story with you about Johnson
     
  12. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I admit I didn’t expect Fury to beat Wladimir. Especially given that it wasn’t too many fights prior to that when Fury was decked by Cunningham. Chisora made him work hard at times too.
     
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  13. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    The days of April are glorious ones in Havana, Cuba. ... There is a slight increase in humidity, as the end of the dry season nears, but beachgoers hardly notice as they soak up the spring sun on Havana's beaches. In April most days in Havana are sunny, and there is very little precipitation.
    Holiday Weather › havana › averages

    ^^^ There you have it. Doesn’t sound very humid to me. Wether you will accept facts is up to you. Also back then people were used to being out doors and sweating.

    Might was well clean out the rests of the myths. Do you think Johnson took a dive in this fight?
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    It isn't just the temperature.
    Havana in April is extremely humid , you need to change clothes often and shower several times a day and that's just from walking around sight seeing.
    I know this because I was there in April 3 years ago.

    Johnson and Willard were in that ring for over 2 hours, and fighting for 78 minutes.Willard said it ,"was hotter then hell in there". He should know.
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    It is very humid in April.