How was Jack Dempsey

I never read replies over 20 words. It makes life easier.

 

I usually never reply with over 20 words. It definitely does make life easier

 

that is absolutely correct, still you might not be able to get across a substantial argument in nineteen words

 

My arguments are rarely substantial, regardless of the length of my replies anyway.


Everyone on here is pissing into the wind when it comes to things like this anyway. You can't argue opinions.

 

N, a contradiction in terms when you post "I can't agree with this but he certainly can't be written off against anyone ". What you are saying is
puzzling to say the least...atsch

 

I have a greyhound. It's the fastest greyhound ever, but it's never proved it against other greyhounds. All my friends agree it's the fastest greyhound ever though. Prove me wrong.

 

no worries...you said he could handle anyone since louis. i simply feel he would have a shot against anyone since louis. i like wouldn't favour him against many of the champions you would but i'd giveh im a chance

 

N. Fair enough !.But I can't help but thinking all the champions since TV have been seen in their best lights koing opponents, which enhances our perspectives of a fighters ability in our sub conscious minds...But we never see today the Dempsey who kod Fred fulton in seconds, Carl Morris,
Gunboat Smith, Billy Miske 1920, and others, and yes Jess Willard in realtime film...Never, so Dempsey's aura in our imagination with many posters would be a helluva different were THEY to have been at ringside...
Another great fighter whose reputation today would be greatly enhanced was Benny Leonard whose only seen against one of the very best SOUTHPAW fighters that ever lived, Lew Tendler in a close bout...How
would Benny Leonard's reputation be today if we had films of him koing
the likes of Johnny Kilbane, Freddie Welsh, Charley White, Ritchie Mitchell,
Ever Hammer, Rocky Kansas, Leo Johnson ,etc. ? For a good reason Leonard was considered every bit as good a lightweight as Ray Robinson was as a welterweight...So too should we consider Dempsey as boxing experts of HIS time saw him at his best...We cannot judge a fighter's career on one or two surviving tapes...Not at all..Cheers ...

 

which is why some fighter's legacies are almost enhanced by a lack of footage. imagine if the only footage we had of greb was, as a young and wildly inexperienced fighter, getting knocked out by joe chip in 3 rounds? it would paint a terribly unbalanced picture of greb and in this case, no footage is better for his legacy

 

N, respectfully not nearly the same...Even today's posters would understand Harry Greb in his start as a prelim boy losing to the BIGGER experienced Joe Chip. He , Greb just started his career being thrown to the wolves...But oh did he make up for it !
Not having ONE SINGLE film of Greb in his amazing career, doesn't alter the fact that we have so many films of his great victims in their bouts...
So if this lil ole seven year itch, as he was called, could whip these guys
he HAD to be EFFECTIVE !
Like I said before, we don't have to have films of a tornado in full force, but we can judge by the after effects of the tornado...Cheers N...

 

You judge Greb on his ring record. Why don't you do the same with Dempsey?

 

MBP, I DO. I DO ! From 1918 when Dempsey hooked up with Jack Kearns as his manager and mentor, Jack Dempsey beat everyone he faced. Everyone...Billy Miske,Battling Levinsky,Gunboat Smith, Fred Fulton, Carl Morris, Bill Brennan 2, Carpentier, Tommy Gibbons, Luis Angel firpo. A man can only beat who he fights.No more, no less...So I do look at his record and realize he was by all his peers regarded as the best dynamic heavyweight from 1918 on til 1923, Harry Wills not withstanding...Did he have contenders as talented as Ali's contenders for the most part ? Hell No ! But a man cannot pick the date of his birth...So on his record and on the opinions of great boxing minds of his times and after, and on the few film of him before his 3 years banging Hollywood starlets, I see a very very agile , powerful punching and mean son of a ***** that would be a HANDFUL for anyone in a ring or on the street...And that includes today's dreadnaughts whatever they weigh...Cheers...

 

certainly and it's an argument i've borrowed and used in arguments about greb myself...if we can see the quality of tunney and walker on film, then imagine how great greb was that a past prime version convincingly beat both

however, if we did had footage of this poor form, early career greb it certainly would give ammo to people who already dismiss him. i don't think the damage that limited but poor footage can have on a career should be understated...

 

What Greb looked like in his first few months oif his career should have no bearing on savy posters who use their noodle...I could throw out names of our greatest fighters who looked umimpressive in their fights. So many..What if we have 100 years from now only a few films existing of the greatest fighter I ever saw Ray Robinson ringside ,against Marty Servo 2,
with Jose Basora D, with Henry Brimm D,with Artie Levine,out on the canvas for 17 seconds or so, with Randy Turpin in London, with Tiger Jones,1955, etc. What would fight fans 100 years from now think ? So we have to evaluate a fighters ability overall and not pick and choose to butress our own desires and prejudices....take care...

 

If we timed him that would determine exactly how fast he is.