How washed up was Jim Jeffries

And your point missed its target completely, as you missed everyone else's points yourself.
The photo you posted was of a twenty years old Jeffries, the inference being he was then prime.
In 1895 ,when the photo was taken Jeffries had his first two fights as an established pro[according to CBZ ,]I submit he would have been out of his depth with a prime Johnson at that stage of his career and,if the roles were reversed ,Johnson would be similarly embarrassed by a prime Jeffries.
Jeffries was perhaps the most precocious of the heavyweight Champions,[I think so anyway,] but even he would struggle at twenty with a prime Johnson.
Please show my posts implying Jeffries was" anywhere near his prime physique in those later years":huh


You are arguing points that have not even been raised on this thread ,responding to questions that have not been asked, :huh
If anyone is living in fantasy land it is you.
Perhaps you would like to comment on the newpaper interview with Jeffries, that Boilermaker kindly provided?
Jeffries states that when he signed to fight Johnson,[March 1909,]he weighed 285lbs .
Jeffries had allready begun training and dieting prior to signing ,March 1909 to July 1901 gave him 16 months more to shed the 60lbs over his fighting weight he had accumulated .

In fact he didnt ,he came into the fight at 227lbs having lost 58lbs, which is allmost half the weight [ 100lbs, ] he is commonly supposed to have shed in training.
Now ,before you take this and run off on another indignant tangent, I am not implying that the loss of 58lbs can have been anything but a significantly negative factor in his poor performance , and contributed hugely to his loss of stamina and, strength etc.
I am just stating for the record that in the 16months prior to the fight Jeffries lost 58lbs NOT 100lbs.
THAT IS REALITY, NOT FANTASY.

 

I would think the lack of a tune up fight ,and the indifferent sparring, was at least as much to blame for his showing as the 58lbs he lost in training.
Why he did not engage in some "closed doors fights, " is a mystery ?
He did little with Armstrong and , plodding around a venerable 41 year old Choynski couldn't have helped much.

It's possible if Jeffries had taken one meaningful tune up ,the Reno fight would have been dead in the water.:think
I've just noticed that Jeffries gave exhibitions with Armstrong in April,May and June , prior to the Reno fight,Armstrong was older than Jeffries by a year or so. and Choynski was 41.

 

Jeffries stated in an interview [provided by Boilermaker ,] that he weighed 285lbs in March 1909.
Jeffries had 16 months to lose 60lbs, [if he wished to come in around his old fighting weight 220lbs] [ Jeffries actually weighed 240lbs in 1900 when he met Finnegan, but let's be honest and say he was carrying surplus for that debacle,] he lost 58lbs for the Johnson fight ,see my other post.

You have no problem beleiving what you want ,even though there is stated proof from the boxer's own mouth , but that would be an inconvenient fact to digest and, like Mendoza , you must never be wrong.

 

It really is bizarre sparring choices. It would be like Lennox coming out of retirement to fight the Klitchskos and warming up by sparring against Riddick Bowe, Mike Tyson and Evander Holyfield.

 

Jeffries lost 58lbs in weight in the 16months leading up to the fight.
This is verifed by Boilermaker's important find , an interview with Jeffries himself ,where he speaks in detail about the fight and the circumstances leading up to it.
As to your closing remark ,I think there is very little doubt of it.
It is a great pity that Jeffries did not buck the prejudice of his day and defend against Johnson between 1904 and 1905.
Johnson would certainly have been a more viable contender than Jack Munroe ,Jeffries last challenger.

 

Jeffries didn't have a sense of smell but ,he had very acute hearing, in his case money didn't just" talk ",it positively shouted. $$$$$$$!

 

I don't think it was that quiet,someone took a shot at Johnson, while he was sitting on the porch a couple of nights before the fight.
Little things like that ,and the tons of virulent hate mail and, life- threatening notes can unsettle a nervous minded person.
I expect Jack was mightily comforted once he was in the ring though , hearing the soothing strains of that old favourite, " All Coons Look Alike To Me".

 

He claimed his main protest against fighting Negroes was that their smell was so overwhelming that it provided an unfair advantage.

Real cultured guy, this Jeffries.

 

One book about him is entitled , "A Man Among Men", perhaps it should have been called," A White Man Among White Men,And Not Among Smelly N*****s ".
I've a couple of black mates,I'll have to have a sniff of them up close or ,does the fact that they are Brits mean that their aroma will be somewhat subdued?

I've noticed that if I dont shower for a few days, I tend to stink a bit,must have some black blood somewhere.

Did all U S blacks in the 1900's live on corn bread ,chitlins and , fried chicken ,followed by water melon? [ No racial stereotyping here]
Perhaps its a dietary thing?
Wonder if the White House stinks?:think

 

This link confirms my statement that the ONLY round Jeffries had an advantage in was the 4th.And some made it even.
http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030214/1910-07-05/ed-1/seq-

8/;words=SHE+MEETS+MASTER


http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/l...7/;words=Lack+Skill+Boxing+Helped+Johnson+Win
Another news report saying the same.
And another.
http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85038615/1910-07-05/ed-1/seq-5/;words=HIS+CDURAGE+WHITE
And another.
http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/l...7-05/ed-1/seq-5/;words=WinThe+Fight+By+Ronnds
This last link is the fighters rounding off their training,It gives a short report of the first Corbett/ Jeffries fight and directly contradicts Mendoza's contention that the rounds prior to the knockout were close,it states that Corbett comprehensively outboxed Jeffries and was a mile in front. That Jeffries corner warned him he had to ko Corbettt or lose his title.

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/l...7-05/ed-1/seq-5/;words=WinThe+Fight+By+Ronnds


The link below gives an account of the first Jeffries/Fitz fight and states that Fitz hit Jeffries allmost at will for 9 rds. Bear in mind this is only 11 years after the 1899 fight, it is not a rehashed account some 100years later.
http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/l...seq-2/;words=JEFFRIES+JOHNSON+READY+FIGHT+IIi
I can't remember which one ,but one of the links has a report by Tex Rickard the referee ,in it he states Johnson is the greatest fighter he has ever seen. That going into the fight he thought Jeffries would win ,but that Johnson hit him at will. Rickard also explains why he did not dsq Jeffries when his corner men helped him up after the first knockdown,he said he assumed they were going to help him back to his corner ,and that they had retired him.
One of the links gives the "Tale Of The Tape" Jeffries has much the bigger chest ,but Johnson is bigger in the biceps and, forearms which suprised me.

 

My question is whatever happened to James E Pepper Whiskey. I know there are all sorts of gaps in my boxing knowledge, but this sort of thing is my area of expertise, and I have never heard of Pepper.

Is it still made?

 

They lost their alcohol licence ,but still manufacture a soft drink
Dr Pepper.

 

Yes it did, unbelievably ,it was written by a black man who earned so $26,000 from it ,the guy who made it a hit was Arthur Collins, a white man who performed in black face similar to Al Jolson.

According to all available sources ,the tune got a hearty round of applause.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lTvRKXNe7s&feature=related[/ame]

 

I agree that it is a shame that Johnson Jeffries didnt happen, but this had nothing to do with prejudice. The reason given by Jeffries quite simply cant be disputed. Johnson was not considered any chance agaisnt Jeffries at the time (admittedly this may have been wrongly). But it was like today where the Klitchskos have cleaned up. There really is no standouts left to fight. Sure one will probably emerge and is there, but no one really has more right than they other. Johnson at this stage, had not stood out. Only a few years earlier, he had lost to the man who Jeffries beat on debut, probably as a youth. And he had just lost to Marvin Hart who most knew wasnt in Jeffries class and in a short 6 rounder would not be able to put away Monroe, who Jeffries had just completely wiped the floor with. going back a little further, he had been knocked cold by Choynski, who was a tough customer but long past his best and never good enough to beat a wolrld champion despite several attempts. Also, let us not forget that as Jeffries said, while he beat the tiny Langford (who did not yet have a heavyweight reputation), word on the street was that Langford had give him a bit of a towelling.