How would 21st century training, nutrition 'n PEDs improved ATGs?

My reply was ironic:good

 

One of the most forgotten effect of modern training techniques that is forgotten and is substantial, is that of regular fighting. If you look at someone like Harry Greb who had hundreds of fights, and used to fight every couple of days, half the time, with modern training, he simply would not fight this often. Modern techniques consider the need for rest, peaking etc. How would this effect a fighter like Greb. would he need the experience garned from hundreds of fights, or would taking a lesser fighting schedule mean he would be a better fighter?

I am split on the issue, as the are advantages of both methods. I tend to think that for the average fighter, the modern method is far better, but for the actual greats, the older method is much better. I think this may be proved by looking at heavy greats where they always rip through the comp when fighting regularly (pre title) and then once they get the money and reduce their number of fights regualrly they soon lose their edge and are not the same fighter.

 

Good point, theres nothing like doing something to get better at it. But fighting regularly can lead to burn out, ie brain damage/becoming shot, look at Benitez who supposedly had 1 too many gym battles

Many modern fighters spar against other world class fighters on a regular basis, hard sparring is great for getting fully sharp but light sparring has its own merit, improve skills while not causing brain damage

 

Id like to know how nutrition has gotten better?...when society in general is in far worse shape and eating worse then it did 50 years ago.

Has food really changed that much? Do you think its nutritional to blow up to the weights say a guy like Ricky Hatton does, in between fights?

Any know much about this? Ive seen that claim thrown around a lot but I really dont know how true it is.

 

I dont think that it has necessarilly gotten much better for all fighters, but certainly there are areas where it has improved massively. For example, we know now that dehydrating is dangerous whereas it used to be a legitimate tactic to keep weight down and improve performance. Obviously we now know that alcohol hinders performance and doesnt simply make a fighter able to sustain a larger beating!

I would have thought also that things like protein bars and protein shakes (and i suppose for some fighters the harder steroid type substances) are also legitimate advances in modern nutrition that were not available long ago.

 

Dehydration is a great point...but fighters of yesteryear tended to fight in divisions they were comfortable in. They fought often so they werent to far off the fighting weight all year round.
Im not totally sure massive weight cutting and stacking it back on in between fights is any better...but I really couldnt say.

Alchohol I can dig but you got guys like Vince Phillips and Sweet Pea being top flight fighters in the midst of drug binges in the modern era also.

Protein bars and shakes?? Marginal at best I would say they would impact boxers. Protein is in plenty of things, just because its not condensed in bar form doesnt mean you cant get enough it. Eat enough fish or steak and you are getting more then you need I suppose.

 

Performance Nutrition has vastly improved whether its supplements or nutritional planning. Performance nutrition to the laymen consists of lots of small meals in order to not elevate insulin so no calories are stores as bodyfat, lots of protein consumption in order to recover from training, increase muscularity and reduce bodyfat. Boxers on average have far lower bodyfat now, the 6pack is an indication of low bodyfat levels, something few fighters from back in the day had

The fact a fat ass like Hatton can get down to a lower bodyfat than most pre-80s boxers and be conditioned the way he was after having a nutritionist and trainer put him through the paces for 3months, speaks the wonders of modern nutritional science

 

Except if you use steak as your number 1 protein source you'll be consuming a load of fat, something not conjusive to making weight. Old timers werent aware of protein loading either, or consumign protein 5-7times daily, which is beneficial

 

Not sure how it would change the fighters. What I'm certain of is that pretty much all top athletes in all sports are using something.

There hasn't been a track and field medal winner since the 70s who wasn't on something.

Mayweather's speech about drugs was one of the most awful and cringeworthy boxing moments for a long time. Reminded me of Carl Lewis protesting his innocence because he knew he could mask what he was on but Johnson couldn't.

Floyd puffs his chest out and delivers his self-righteous speech... Then ends it by dropping his eyes, silence goes a beat or two too long... Shows every tell in the book...

I'm not even sure that it's possible to police what's going on. It would be easier (though sad) to just say take what you like.

 

Good post.
I agree.
Actually, sport was better before they had all the hysteria about performance-enhancing drugs. That came about in the 1980s, but no one really cared too much before that.
It's been going on since the 1950s at least, and that's just the steroids.

I wouldn't be surprised if guys like Ali were being given testosterone back in the day.
Ali used to get all sorts of injections. In those days boxers just took whatever the docs gave them. Nowadays they all look back and say, "Oh, we never had all the steroids and hormones in my day", but many of them probably didn't even know or care that they were taking it.

Cortisone injections, painkillers in the hands, stimulants, steroids, it was quite common place in all sports but there was no STIGMA and it wasn't considered any sort of huge advantage so it kind of gets forgotten.
People are mistaken to think this is a new thing.
PEDs date back to the ancient Olympics. Steroids date back to the 1930s. Stimulants and diuretics and painkillers date back before the 'roids.

 

Complete unsubstanciated ignorant arm chair bull****

Carl Lewis clearly wasnt doing steroids, he will have done some over the counter ephedra, hardly the same as ephedra is a stimulant similar to coffee which I regularly use the morning after a heavy night on the beers.

And I dont like Lewis, he was a *****. But the fact he could easily compete in random testing era, had little muscle mass and was a child prodigy indicates he wasnt doing any gear

And yea Mayweather wants to implement random drugs testing because hes cheating, that makes sense Sherlock

 

Yeah fair enough but you get my point...I think there was enough knowledge about that stuff back then to know that if weight is getting to be a problem then 3 steaks day isnt going to help. :yep

 

Lots of drug-using athletes compete in the random testing era and pass every test.
The competitors who were using Victor Conte's drugs, for example, were only caught because Conte's operation went down.
Tim Montgomery, Marion Jones, Dwain Chambers, etc. etc. never failed a test and were among the most tested athletes in the world.

The fact is Carl Lewis failed three tests for stimulants, which seems to indicate he was prepared to use substances on the banned list to get an edge in his event. He cheated, that much is clear.

 

Yea but then you get people struggling to make weight they'd simply starve themselves loosing as much muscle as fat, which is obviously counter productive and will leave the fighter more drained

 

I thought this would come up

Conte managed to put his athletes on gear that was undetectable. Most of this stuff wasnt commonly used in Lewis's day and it was all far more blackmarket

Its very hard to avoid all substances on the IOC banned list, caffiene above certain amounts is even on there, maybe he twisted the rules. Even if intentional comparing stimulants to winstrol is like comparing an 18yo sleeping with his 17yo girlfriend to a child mollestor