How would 21st century training, nutrition 'n PEDs improved ATGs?

Didnt Lyle Alzado die from steroid affects?

Alot of these newer guys being so ripped also has to do with the increased knowledge of nutrition and dieting. Thats why we are seeing physically bigger stronger "lighter" guys as well.

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgjSYOoNZhg[/ame]

 

That's simply not true. Many boxers of the lighter weight classes have always been ripped.

And individuals vary, so what you might find on a publicity boxer pose shot may not represent the ripped condition they came to fight in.

Here's Freddie Welsh in ripped condition :

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Tiger Jack Fox :

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He died on a brain tumour, and he blamed the illness on steroids. His doctors thought it was completely unrelated though. Steroids are not known to cuase brain tumours.

That's the problem with any drug like "steroids" or anything else that the media latches on to as a "killer drug". Any time anyone dies or gets ill with anything and they were known to have used a "bad" or "killer" drug, or something labelled as such, the media claims as proof that the drug is a real killer.

 

Wouldnt you agree nutritional supplements, dieting and training has increased quite a bit? I also think "on average" you are seeing more ripped guys than in the past.

 

The old-timers were solid professionals too, and many of them have the dieting down. They were on the high-protein, cutting out the carbs diets years ago, and measuring how much water they took in. They always had that down to a fine art. And the old-timers were ripped, devoid of excess body fat. Being "ripped" isn't a new thing, as ancient Greek statues should tell us.
I dont see how you and powerpuncher make the calculation that "on average" there are more ripped guys. How is that done ?

Yes, knowledge has improved, and the nutritional supplements and sports science can only make things better - if it's utilized fully. But it's wrong to think the old-timers didn't have the vast majority of that stuff sewn up too. Of course, every fighter and trainer is different, but the best examples then were very much in control of their training too, and experts at making weight to the precise ounce. That's nothing we should brush off.
I mean, it's not actually rocket science, and men in 1920 were not less clever or less professional than they are now.
Some of them did some foolish stuff out of ignorance, no doubt, but some of today's fighter just do foolishness without even that excuse.

 

I'm not saying there were no ripped fighters back in the day, but it was very rare, today its the norm to have 6pack abbs, in the past it was very unusual. There've been what 3 old timers who were ripped pointed out in the thread, they are simply few and far between

 

The vast amount of ripped fighters today, its the norm today, you have to look far and wide to find old timers who were ripped, it simly wasnt common

Most pre 70s ATGs were not ripped to shreds, most of todays are.

 

I'm not convinced of that at all.

It's harder to fight still photos of fighters in ripped condition to compare with all the glossy weigh-in pics you provide, as most of the pictures of old-timers are classic boxing pose publicity shots and were not taken when they were tip-top.
But on film many of the old-timers look just as ripped.

And it stands to reason that they would be, considering the way they trained and dieted was sufficient to get themselves ripped.

 

Also, seeing as we know the 36-hour + time between weigh-in and fight has allowed them to dehydrate and lean out even more severely just for the weigh in, it's even less correct to compare modern weigh-in pics with old publicity shots.

 

Its not just about cutting carbs and dieting. There were no strength and conditioning coaches and supplements. These guys are taking supplements and protein shakes and various crap all day long during training camp, plus they are doing an entirely different training program in addition to their boxing.

 

Most old timers are a fleshy and not muscular, its pretty obvious, watch the fights, the arent in terrible condition by any means but they are nowhere near as ripped

I think you want to believe old timers were just as conditioned if not better, but the bottom line is its not true.

Dempsey looking soft/weak:

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Most the fighters I've posted are in that condition 24/7/365 so your point is mute

 

Well, the supplements industry has you believe that they need to be "taking supplements and protein shakes and various crap all day long", and maybe they are, but the actual impact it has overall will be minimal after a certain point.
But dont underestimate the power of the supplements industry in how the importance of such things is viewed.

(That's not to say I dont believe those things work. But it's not the be all and end all if some guy says he has this great training program and this great nutrition program. Sometimes we see guys talk like that and turn up for a fight, gas out of getting knocked out then they reverse the whole thing and blame the new regimen !
Frankly, I think more pinches of salt need to be taken with these stories of what's working for who in training.)

Did the old-timers fight 15-rounders at as fast a work-rate as modern fighters fight 12 now ?

Were they sufficiently trained to do that and sufficiently rested and nourished ?

Were they on point with making weight and in solid condition ?

Or are we imagining it ?

John L. Sullivan had William Muldoon brought in to get him into tip-top shape back in 1880-something, so I reject the notion that "strength and conditioning" coaches are wholly new.
The old-timers did all sorts of crazy strength and conditioning stuff unrelated to their specific ordinary boxing training to get into tip-top shape.

 

Stupid post.