How would a prime Charles have fared against Marciano?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Mar 12, 2012.


Page 1 of 11
  1. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    80,640
    21,250
    Sep 15, 2009
    Lets say the Charles from (1946-1952) i.e. the man fighting here

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a9CYH5EVSY[/ame]

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQGryRCbLzU[/ame]

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYN2eeIuZr4[/ame]

    vs Rocky at any point during his title reign.

    Would an earlier version of charles fared any better against rocky than the older version later would?
     
    lufcrazy, Mar 12, 2012
    lufcrazy, Mar 12, 2012
    #1
  2. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    61,033
    45,275
    Feb 11, 2005
    I consider both fights victories for Charles.
     
    Seamus, Mar 12, 2012
    Seamus, Mar 12, 2012
    #2
  3. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    80,640
    21,250
    Sep 15, 2009
    I think Rocky deserved the first on points and his ko in the rematch is fairly emphatic imo.

    However, given that you think Charles beat him in the first, do you see any room for improvement if it was a younger version of Charles fighting The Rock?
     
    lufcrazy, Mar 12, 2012
    lufcrazy, Mar 12, 2012
    #3
  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    80,640
    21,250
    Sep 15, 2009
    hmmmmmmmm on the sly I might be agreeing with you but I was expecting quite a backlash so I might hold off on making my pick till I've seen smarter people than me put forth their arguments.
     
    lufcrazy, Mar 12, 2012
    lufcrazy, Mar 12, 2012
    #4
  5. apollack

    apollack Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,223
    1,632
    Sep 13, 2006
    I think Charles was in fantastic shape for both fights, so I don't think he performs any differently.
     
    apollack, Mar 12, 2012
    apollack, Mar 12, 2012
    #5
  6. Dempsey1238

    Dempsey1238 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,706
    3,541
    Jul 10, 2005
    I heard the raido broadcast of Marciano Charles I, it sounded like Marciano won a close but clear points win imo.
     
    Dempsey1238, Mar 12, 2012
    Dempsey1238, Mar 12, 2012
    #6
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    112,755
    47,590
    Mar 21, 2007
    :lol:



    Charles may have had his best chance in his LHW days. He sure could be quick on his feet back then, and his high energy style seems to have been rather frightening. He could have been trouble.
     
    McGrain, Mar 12, 2012
    McGrain, Mar 12, 2012
    #7
  8. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    80,640
    21,250
    Sep 15, 2009
    :lol:

    I think from the first moore victory to the layne loss, he was in his prime.

    Afterwards he was still very good, just not as good imo.

    I'm gonna watch the harold johnson fight tomorrow see how I score it.

    Does film exist of the valdes fight?
     
    lufcrazy, Mar 12, 2012
    lufcrazy, Mar 12, 2012
    #8
  9. MURK20

    MURK20 Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,511
    1,338
    Sep 26, 2008
    I remember reading an interview in RING magazine with Ted Lowry, who had two close fights with Marciano where he said that he couldn't see Marciano beating a prime Charles or Moore.
     
    MURK20, Mar 12, 2012
    MURK20, Mar 12, 2012
    #9
  10. apollack

    apollack Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,223
    1,632
    Sep 13, 2006
    I don't think Charles looked like anything fantastic against Louis. He was a very good boxer. He was a very good boxer when he fought Marciano as well, and he didn't do anything more or better against Louis than he did against Marciano. Difference was that Marciano was coming after him nonstop, forcing him to fight hard, whereas Louis jousted with him. Joe was 187 years old at that point, :), so old Joe performed pretty well. Prime Louis does away with Charles.
     
    apollack, Mar 12, 2012
    apollack, Mar 12, 2012
    #10
  11. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    80,640
    21,250
    Sep 15, 2009
    He didn't need to perform any better against louis because louis couldn't force a hard fight.

    However had charles then been forced to fight had (as ray made him fight for example) he could match the opponent.

    I think a better version of charles has the potential to do better, i'm just not sure how better.
     
    lufcrazy, Mar 12, 2012
    lufcrazy, Mar 12, 2012
    #11
  12. Nightcrawler

    Nightcrawler Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,432
    32
    Dec 18, 2011
    hard to say. good question but mcgrain raised a good point that the lhw version might have fared the best. while i'm not sure i entirely agree, the 175 pound of charles was likely his best weight. the difference on the scales between he and rocky would be less than 20 pounds, his speed and sharpness would have been better.

    the question is what traits did charles have that would have enabled a victory against rocky and when were those traits, and his physical prowess, at their combined peak?
    and would that peak have been sufficient to beat an always in shape monster of marciano?

    don't know but bears thought
     
    Nightcrawler, Mar 12, 2012
    Nightcrawler, Mar 12, 2012
    #12
  13. DonBoxer

    DonBoxer The Lion! Full Member

    8,063
    34
    Apr 28, 2010
    I dont think it would make too much difference, i feel at heavyweight the heavier he came in the slower he was on his feet and i think thats the main reason for him getting KOed in Marciano II but even if it was the lighter Charles i still think i fancy Marciano to pull a UD.
     
    DonBoxer, Mar 12, 2012
    DonBoxer, Mar 12, 2012
    #13
  14. doug.ie

    doug.ie 'Classic Boxing Society' Full Member

    14,214
    80
    Apr 1, 2008
    dont forget - we havent actually seen all of the first fight with marciano....only 5 or 6 (i think) rounds were filmed....have i got that right ?
     
    doug.ie, Mar 12, 2012
    doug.ie, Mar 12, 2012
    #14
  15. slip&counter

    slip&counter Gimme some X's and O's Full Member

    24,813
    20
    Jul 23, 2008
    He beats him relatively comfortably. So do the Old Mongoose, Joe and Arnold Cream.
     
    slip&counter, Mar 12, 2012
    slip&counter, Mar 12, 2012
    #15
Page 1 of 11