How would Ali have done if he'd tried to be a puncher?

Ali could for sure hit harder than his record would suggest. However that would mean throwing out all the qualities in footwork and defence than made him great. Going in with a plan to slug it out with Foreman? Ouch.

 

We've seen it countless times in numerous sports, fighters falling in love with their power, and changing their styles completely looking for a KO. Worked fairly well for Ruddock, not so much for Ronda.

I think he could've been a respectable puncher, as I've always thought his power was underrated. One of the few times he actually sat down on his punches, he knocked Bonavena out, being the only man to do so, a feat which alluded the likes of Frazier, Lyle, etc.

That being said, putting aside his adaption skills and learning from his mistake, he would've at the very minimum lost to Frazier, Liston, and Foreman. Ironically he would've done much better against Norton.

I see him being an top contender but never actually picking up the gold.

 

True.

Punchers can become too intoxicated and singularly defer to their power to get the job done. However, failure to utilise their skills otherwise can also be just an unfortunate by product of possessing an incredible punch with KOs simply coming all too easy, fewer rds in the bag, less experience gained per bout, prior experience lost due to lack of necessary use, lack of pacing for longer bouts etc. A lot of potential negatives when you’re able to easily swat guys out in 2 rds or less.

To see Foreman in Zaire and then compare him to the more fundamentally sound 1970 version v Chuvalo - it was as if he went backward. Foreman had so few rds per fight leading into Zaire, it was insane. Ali came in with 2 x 12 rdr’s. Even if we allow 3 fights back for Foreman, it doesn’t even total to 5 rds.

When Foreman rematched Frazier, no disrespect to Joe, but if George let it all hang out as he did in Jamaica, it might’ve been over in an equally brief 2-3 rds. However, we saw George consciously pull it back, return to the basics, being patient, well metered and paced. The approach wasn’t so much necessary for the opponent in question - Frazier - rather, just very important for George to better drill himself for the future and be more broadly applied as and when required.

 

Of course, Ali didn't have the hardest single punch ala Foreman/Tyson/Liston/Marciano/Louis etc. Young Ali didn't have that many early knockout wins either. His great footspeed and lateral movement weakened his one-punch power and he wasn't that keen on knockout wins at times (like against Terrell). Nonetheless, I think young Ali's KO ratio (especially in the 60s) is quite amazing like the predictions in which round he would knockout his opponents.

For instance, if I compare him with Joe Louis who is maybe the greatest puncher of all time (at least according to The Ring Yearbook 2003).

For example, before Joe Louis lost his first fight against Max Schmeling, his record was: 24 wins (20 KOs).

Muhammad Ali's record was 24 wins (19 KOs) and he was already world champion (24th win was against Henry Cooper II).

Ali's record before his boxing ban: 29 wins (23 KOs) and before Frazier I (after wins against the tough Quarry and Bonavena): 31 wins (25 KOs).

Young Joe Louis's record was 29 wins (25 KOs), 1 loss and 31 wins (26 KOs), 1 loss before he fought Jim Braddock for the title.

Of course, Joe Louis had the harder single punch + combos and more first round knockouts. Young Ali's knockout ratio is comparable though, but obviously Ali's KO % got worse later on.

 

Ali was a pretty good puncher in his prime, and definitely tried to KO his opponents.

His hands suffered though, especially after his comeback in 1970, and increasingly so. So there were a lot of fights in his later career where he was hitting lightly, to save his hands.

If he had changed his style to maximize power, he still would have been great. But his hands would have put an end to his prime sooner probably, and he might have been easier to hit too - although that's difficult to say for sure.

 

Two points. Ali fought fighting backwards. Somebody mentioned Joe Frazier. He fought Foreman fighting backwards instead of his patented smothering style. It made for an aesthetically ugly fight. Ali's biggest flaw was he fought too long. He scaled the mountain in Zaire. That was the time to say goodbye.

 

I would submit that Ali was already an all time great finisher.

You expect a fighters KO% to fall off very quickly, as their level of opposition increases.

Look at somebody like Bob Satterfield for example, who was undoubtedly a puncher, but fought a very high number of ranked opponents.

Ali fought more ranked contenders than any other heavyweight in history I think, but still he maintained a high KO%.

 

In Muhammad Ali's first career, 1960-1967 before the 43 month banishment, he was extremely fast and he had fantastic footwork, lightning like reflexes, incredible stamina, tons of heart as he arose and continued against Sonny Banks in Feb 1962, Henry Cooper in June 1963 before he defeated Sonny Liston in Feb 1964. When Ali returned to the ring in Oct 1970 against Jerry Quarry, he lost his stamina but appeared to punch harder, this was also evident in his Dec 7 1970 fight against Oscar Bonavena, Ali took punches that he never would have in his pre banishment years but punched way harder. Ali set himself to punch harder because his legs were gone. It is more than likely that he would have taken a lot of punishment leading to more serious Neurological issues after he finally retired from the ring. But given Ali's speed, which he still possessed, it would have been very interesting.

 

Shavers would commit so thoroughly to haymakers he'd trip when they were dodged sometime. Never seen anyone commit like he did.

 

Does that mean he doesn't do rope a dope against Foreman? That would be a dangerous fight for Even Ali, going toe to toe.

 

Ali actually sat down on his right hands against Foreman more than most any other fight I recall he had. Those still photos of Foremans head being twisted around with sweat flying were some of the hardest shots Ali ever landed on anyone. He could have punched harder but I recall his answer to the question" why don't you throw more hooks"? Ali replied , " you get hit with right hands when you throw hooks".

 

Excellent observation. Even the great Joe Louis, for all his technical proficiency and balance, also tripped/fell on occasion when he missed- reflecting the degree of his fully committed bad intentions and the factoring into the equation of actually hitting the opponents head for opposing force to keep Joe on an even keel - that allowed Joe to get every ounce of weight behind certain exceptionally powerful shots - which, as we know, connected far more often than not. Sometimes the full blooded launch and then miss also lent itself to Joe being countered and KD’d - partial imbalance lending itself to Joe’s trip the canvas - see Braddock v Louis for a specific example.

 

That's basically what he did though, right?

Ali threw out his plan to dance and move ... which everyone involved agreed was the plan through the whole training camp.

And he stood flat-footed on the ropes, covered and countered, until he opened up and knocked Foreman out.

If he could knock out a prime George Foreman in eight rounds by planting his feet and punching, I'm sure he'd have done just fine in his career taking that approach with others.

It would've been nice not to see him purposely carry guys he could've easily stopped. He literally carried Buster Mathis to the final bell and caught hell for it.

 

Not everybody would blow their wad like Foreman though. He hit on the idea of tiring Foreman out more than of blowing him away with power punching.

 

This idiot is acting like he went toe to toe with Foreman, never giving an inch.