How Would Ali v Frazier Fight2 Have Looked Without Foreman?

So if George hadn't been in the picture and Joe didn't suffer that devastating stoppage, then how does the second Ali v Frazier fight go?

 

I think Frazier's first fight with Ali took a lot out of him. The Foreman defeat was crushing but quick defeats don't really hurt a fighter: it's the long, punishing fights that shorten a fighter's career. Frazier didn't look the same after Ali against Stander and Daniels; he looked heavier and slower. Then came the Foreman blowout. I think the second Ali-Frazier fight pans out pretty much the same way it did.

 

I always Had in my mind that the Foreman KO certainly did something to Joe.
It was such a devastating ko it makes you wonder if it had sone effect on him.
Much as Ali s win over Foreman did.
But I do agree those long battles take a lot out of both men.

 

There's no doubt that losing to Foreman didn't do Frazier any good and he struggled in his next fight against Joe Bugner in London. Then came the Ali rematch. Overall, I think Joe was on the decline from the first Ali fight.

 

Agree 100%--the FOTC was Frazier's career peak. It was a steady decline from there--(and as was pointed out previously you can see signs of Joe's diminished ability in the pre Foreman fights against Daniels and Stander.)

 

A second fight takes place in 1973 .
Whilst Joe puts Pressure on All from the go, he never seems to be able to get on top.
At times Ali plant s his feet and throws both hands fast.
Despite landing his deadly left hook, it's Frazier that is hurt several times in the fight.
At the end of 15 hard fought round, Ali regains the title with a unanimous decision.

 

Good scenario,Fergy and one that I agree with. It would be just like their real second fight albeit three rounds longer.

 

Ali would have beaten him.

I acknowledge Frazier's greatness in FOTC, and he's in my ATG Top 10, but Ali proved twice more that he was the superior fighter, Dave Wolf's babbling in the Manila documentary how they were "equal" aside.

 

It’s tough to say for certain - on one hand Ali is always going to do what he did in the second fight - he had learned that fighting Frazier honestly was a mistake, that he needed to hold & spoil as much as possible, & slimey & hard to respect as I find it, it worked. & it would always have a negative impact on Frazier’s style - but you can’t tell me Frazier didn’t lose something with that debilitating defeat to Foreman. It was savage beyond comprehension.

If Frazier had a 15-rounder with the title on the line in Super Fight II, who knows…I think it’s possible he gets up for it enough to win it. If really forced to pick, I think I’d lean with Ali’s cheap chicanery to carry the result, as it did in real time.

 

As others have said, the relative quick ko loss likely didn’t take much out of Frazier. Frazier in ‘74 against Ellis and Quarry actually looked much better than he did against Standers and Daniels.

 

If I am not mistaken, didn’t Stander rock Joe a couple of times and that fight was stopped on cuts not because Joe had rendered him senseless?

 

iirc you're right. I don't like watching those fights though. The smoke isn't there.

 

Bonkers take. Are you feeling alright, Swag?

 

"Joe has bad headaches but he’ll be alright. But not the same! No, not the same!" -Florence Frazier after FOTC

“I, for one, think that Joe didn’t look at all like that indestructible machine…my conclusion: Frazier has lost interest in the sport of flat noses…Well, Joe Frazier is a Pro. He has made a lot of money. He is ready to retire. Anytime. And now is anytime…He proved to be the best man of his time…Joe Frazier became the most important athlete that night of March 8, 1971 when he displaced Muhammad Ali as number one." Jose Torres after Frazier's defense against Stander or Daniels (I forgot which one it was).

"Muhammad Ali had a big hand in the demise of the world heavyweight champion. Without taking, one iota of credit, away from Foreman's electrifying and sensational piece of work, Frazier was not the human howitzer who beat Ali on March, 8, 1971. It was generally agreed by those of us who saw that fight in New York that Frazier took a terrible head beating in slugging his way to a fifteen round decision. And from his sluggish showing Monday night, it was apparent he had never recovered."

""i just didn't realize i beat Joe Frazier that bad. I knew I defeated Joe Frazier but now the people see how bad I did beat him. When he fought two nobodys I knew he was done. Joe made a big mistake in his false illusion of being great. He didn't have no action, only eight rounds in two years." - Muhammad Ali

Right in this article here https://news.google.com/newspapers?...b9QAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4V8DAAAAIBAJ&pg=6176,2571228 prior to the Foreman fight, the caption itself says (or asks) "Frazier washed up?" And says his two recent bouts prior to facing Foreman "suggested to some people that the champion might be slipping a bit"

 

People who crow about Joe finally shutting that loudmouth Ali up in FOTC ignore the fact that Joe’s hand might have been raised but Ali beat the ever loving dog feces out of him that night in a way that might have literally retired some lesser fighters.