How would Chavalo's career have played out if there were 20-25 rounds fight- 60/70's

Fine.

Fine, I’ll play your game for a moment. Chavlao surrendered far quicker. The fact that Vitlai could hang in there and do extremely well with a bad cut or a torn rotator cuff suggests he is tougher than Chavalo, who like I said quit in seconds when he was injured. When Chavalo was hurt, he didn’t have the wearwithal to get out of the ropes on one instance, and quit too early to even attempt to get up on the cards on the other. Where is your reason? Your reversal is has been reversed by facts. Cherry picking and saying I won’t reply is not going to work for you here.

I have to see Foreman vs Chavalo again. Lewis had more bulk than Foreman, and IMO, landed harder shots on Vitlai. As I said before, Vitlai took them better. I.e., he didn’t need to rest on the ropes, cover up for many seconds, and he fired back. Chavalo was a sitting duck....because he was hurt.

Watch it. You will see Hide landed a very good right hand early.

Wrong! I have given examples, and challenged you to respond directly. You sir, have not. All you give is subjective replies. If there were in a court of law, you'd lose quickly. I am proving things. You are not.

Once again, tested by who in the case of Chavalo? And how did Chavalo stand up to these tests? Regarding McCall, he quit early when the going got tough, and was in fact rocked and stunned by lesser punchers in comparison to Vitlai. Challenged me on these facts with video or ring results, you will not. As for Cobb, he has a 1st round KO loss, and was dropped by a no name. How is this better than Vitlai's resume on taking punches?

Ah-but those who take combinations on the ropes are hurt. Vitlai was never in such a hurt state. Nice try. Vitali from my recollection took some combo's in his career; they just did not have a dramatic effect on him.

McCall took Lewis bombs for less rounds than Vitlai did and quit on his own accord. Lewis hits plenty hard. So does Sanders, Johnson, Williams, Hide, and some others that Vitlai fought. Sparring stories mean jack. If you have to use sparring stories to boost McCall, your fishing. Douglas nearly TKo'd McCall. Have you even seen that fight? McCall has a great chin, and like Vitlai he never went down, however the difference is McCall was closer to going down than Vitlai was, and hurt by lesser punchers wheaars Vitlai was never hurt by non elite level punchers.

I don't think Quarry or Bonavena is a big puncher. Foreman and Frazier were and both finished Chavalo early with punches. The ropes held Chavalo up. The best puncher Chavalo beat was who? Not as good as the best puncher Vitlai beat. I think that Hide, Williams, and Johnson hit harder than Quarry or Bonavena. Vitlai beat these guys. The numbers, video knock outs, and such agree with me.

Please explain why Chavalo was dead on the ropes vs Foreman? It was punches and Chavalo's durability. END. As for Frazier, he also hurt and made Chavalo quit with punches. Vitlai was NEVER in such a condition. He was always in good fighting form. A cut is a cut, but Vitlai was never hurt to the point where he was defenseless on the ropes like Chavlao was, nor did he whimper out an force the ref to stop the fight as quickly as Chavalo did. FACT. FACT. FACT.

You’re a bright guy Kurgan. I wonder if you dislike Vitlai so much that he can't even fit into your own definitions and criteria for those who had great chins. Vitlai fits your definition to a “T “. He was never down, never in a helpless shell on the ropes, nor was he out on his feet. And he was hit in my opinion by harder shots. Regarding Chavlao and McCall, they quit earlier, and were TKO'd earlier in comparison to Vitlai. Use your reason. Embrace the truth. Vitlai had an all time chin, and in a direct comparison to McCall or Chavalo does well.

 

It happend on this you tube at 38 seconds in. I have seen a better broadcast of that punch, and it was hard. In this viewing, Vitlai's back is to the punch, but you can still see it was a hard shot. I watched round one. Hide laned good shots at 1:36, and 2:32. Thanks.

 

[FONT=&quot]If you only had half an idea of what really happened in those two fights, you wouldn’t be clinging to “ unknown hopes “. As I said before, there are 1,000's of things talked about here that happened in boxing. We have not seen them all.

Let's focus on what we know.

1 ) Cobb was credited for being knocked down vs a no-name. Deal with it.

2 ) Cobb was Ko'd in round one. Deal with it.

If you’re disputing official results, then the onus is on you to say why. You have not said a word.

I'll help you out. View the below link:


[url]http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0DE7DA133BF932A15756C0A963948260&scp=2&sq=Tex+Cobb+knocked+down[/url]

[/FONT] Earnie Shavers, Ken Norton, Michael Dokes and even Larry Holmes could not do what Eddie Gregg, the heavyweight champion of New York, accomplished tonight on the Holmes-Carl Williams undercard.
Gregg knocked down Randall (Tex) Cobb, the first time the iron-chinned fighter had been floored in 35 professional fights.
About the only other time Cobb has been knocked down, he has joked, was by a pickup truck.


Gregg, a 30-year-old from Kew Gardens, Queens, made boxing history with a right hand in the ninth round that helped cement a unanimous 10-round decision. Cobb was off balance and the solid punch turned his head, his body following in a corkscrew motion to the canvas. He was up by the count of 6.



''When you get one foot off the ground, anybody can get knocked down,'' said Cobb, who now has a 29-6 record. ''And anybody who doesn't think I get off balance doesn't have eyes.


''I wasn't hurt, I was surprised. Eddie was surprised, the referee was surprised, and I turned and looked at the audience and thought they were falling out.''


Gregg, who now has a 22-1-1 record (the loss was to James Broad), said, ''They can never say Eddie Gregg can't punch.''

>>>Legit knockdown from a clean punch. End of story.

 

For John ThomasL

Cobb Knocked out in round one.

Link below:
[url]http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A07E2DF1438F932A05753C1A963948260&scp=1&sq=Tex+Cobb+knocked+out[/url]


The way the fight crowd had it figured out, all Randall (Tex) Cobb had to do to earn a title bout against the heavyweight champion, Michael Spinks, was to score a decisive victory over Dee Collier, an obscure Los Angeles heavyweight, in their 10-round bout in Reseda, Calif., Tuesday night. It didn't work out that way. Cobb, looking more like a punching bag than a heavyweight contender, was knocked out in the first round after a severe battering by Collier.


Summary, Cobb was knocked down by a non-contender from a punch, and KO'd in round one. Links and reads provided. Offical results match the news reads. Please repsond in spin form if needed.

 

The Kurgan has addressed every one of your points, again and again and again and you still ask him to address them. He's put forth one of the most comprehensive whuppings i have ever seen in here and has shown some real talent and the patience of a saint.[/quote]


All historians refer to official results, and none of them have seen it all. All you did was play spoiler to the point where I checked resources, which is what all historians do. I never said I was better than you or anyone else, but if you try to suggest I don't know what I'm talking about or an question an official result suggesting it was a bad call without giving details, you're going to get replies like this.

Regarding Chavalo and McCall, what I said what happened in the ring. I am not making things up. Chavlao and McCall both had earlier TKO's losses. Both quit faster than Vitali did. Both were Chavlao and McCall were hurt to the point where resting and covering up on the ropes. Vitlai never was hurt enough to do this. FACT. FACT. FACT.

As for Cobb, him being floored by a punch than made him do a corkscrew as the article says on the way down, and being KO'd in 1 round have been linked and posted here. If you want to compare Vitlai to Cobb, Cobb was floored by a punch. Vitlai never was. If you want to compare early Ko losses, Vitlai also exceeds Cobb by a mile.

I do think Chavalo, McCall, and Cobb had great chins. What I just can’t understand from Kurgan’s or your replies is why Vitlai doesn’t belong in the conversation. The facts I presented not only suggest he belongs, they also gives numerous examples on how he exceeds the three men.
[FONT=&quot]
Just embrace the facts, and stop stirring the pot. Its not like any of these guys were whacked by “ super “ Greg Page "[/FONT]

 

Look. You called me out and were proven wrong regarding the Cobb fights. I am tryingto take high road, and prefer to keep it that way. There is no need for you to keep acting immature.

 

The Gregg vs Cobb report says : The solid punch turned his head, his body following in a corkscrew motion to the canvas. He ( Cobb ) was up by the count of 6.

See, this was no slip. It was a legit knockdown from a solid punch. All boxers most pick up one leg to move.

Now your hinting the KO 1 loss for Cobb was fixed or Cobb was drunk? Where did you hear this rumor from?