How would history change if Henry Cooper stopped Ali in 1963

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by InMemoryofJakeLamotta, Feb 20, 2018.


  1. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

    16,149
    11,636
    Sep 21, 2017
    Would Cooper go on to fight Liston? Would Ali have became a forgotten contender of the 60's? Would this mean Liston would reign into the late 60's, early 70s? Would this mean Foreman reigning into the 80's and there never was a Larry Holmes as we know him? Would Tyson have had to fight an aging Foreman instead of Berbick to win his first title?
     
    InMemoryofJakeLamotta, Feb 20, 2018
    InMemoryofJakeLamotta, Feb 20, 2018
    #1
  2. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    14,436
    2,839
    Feb 18, 2012
    Cooper would have been stopped by Ali in a rematch, Ali would beat Liston and history gets back on track......
     
    Wass1985, Feb 20, 2018
    Wass1985, Feb 20, 2018
    #2
    lloydturnip likes this.
  3. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

    16,149
    11,636
    Sep 21, 2017
    This could be true. It's just that some promising fighters for some reason, don't recover after a loss and are just never the same again, I guess.
     
    InMemoryofJakeLamotta, Feb 20, 2018
    InMemoryofJakeLamotta, Feb 20, 2018
    #3
  4. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    14,436
    2,839
    Feb 18, 2012
    I think it's safe to say Ali wasn't made from their cloth.
     
    Wass1985, Feb 20, 2018
    Wass1985, Feb 20, 2018
    #4
    InMemoryofJakeLamotta likes this.
  5. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,108
    5,702
    Feb 26, 2009
    probably not much. Ali would have recovered and won the title and been great. I don't think he would have had the same aura as he did early. but he would always be better than most.
     
    PernellSweetPea, Feb 20, 2018
    PernellSweetPea, Feb 20, 2018
    #5
    InMemoryofJakeLamotta and lloydturnip like this.
  6. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

    13,289
    11,658
    Mar 19, 2012
    187lb Henry Cooper hurt Ali as bad as anyone did with that one punch.
     
    ETM, Feb 20, 2018
    ETM, Feb 20, 2018
    #6
    lloydturnip likes this.
  7. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

    41,974
    4,029
    Sep 22, 2010
    well 'nam would have been a roaring success.

    seriously...
     
    HerolGee, Feb 21, 2018
    HerolGee, Feb 21, 2018
    #7
  8. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

    29,437
    35,934
    Jan 8, 2017
    Cooper gets a shot at Liston ..Owchhh.Henry s lucky to see round 3 .Ali gets back in contention .Gets a shot at Sonny and stops him in 5 .
     
    Fergy, Feb 21, 2018
    Fergy, Feb 21, 2018
    #8
    lloydturnip likes this.
  9. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,102
    5,225
    Mar 22, 2015
    Given a free shot, a 187 pound man like Cooper could hurt anyone with his left hook.
    Men of that size are not exactly dwarfs.
     
    Cecil, Feb 21, 2018
    Cecil, Feb 21, 2018
    #9
    HerolGee likes this.
  10. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,102
    5,225
    Mar 22, 2015
    Jim Wicks wouldn't have let Henry anywhere near Liston, he once said "We don't even want to meet Liston walking down the same street!"
     
    Cecil, Feb 21, 2018
    Cecil, Feb 21, 2018
    #10
    lloydturnip likes this.
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,721
    29,069
    Jun 2, 2006
    Cooper would never have fought Liston so nothing much would change imo.
     
    mcvey, Feb 21, 2018
    mcvey, Feb 21, 2018
    #11
  12. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

    13,289
    11,658
    Mar 19, 2012
    I agree.
     
    ETM, Feb 21, 2018
    ETM, Feb 21, 2018
    #12
  13. FastHands(beeb)

    FastHands(beeb) Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,496
    407
    Oct 28, 2010
    Wicks always said he wouldn't put Cooper in with Liston, but with the £££ a title fight would bring in would he have changed his mind? We'll never know for sure.

    If Cooper had stopped Clay I think 2 things would have happened;

    1) Clay comes back from the Cooper loss and works his way back into contention; gets a title shot about a year later than he did and stops the older Sonny.

    Historically I don't think much changes in terms of the lineage of the HW division, I think that Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson all reign pretty much as things turned out.

    2) Clay/Ali's historical placing suffers as a result of the ko/tko loss to Cooper. His claim as possible GOAT suffers; his critics point to the Cooper loss as "evidence" to downgrade his all-time ranking, this in turn strengTHens the claims of other GOAT candidates. This would probably lead to Louis being viewed as the stand alone consensus GOAT. The Cooper loss would be used by some to downgrade Ali in the same way the McCall and Rahman defeats are used by some to downgrade Lennox Lewis.
     
    FastHands(beeb), Feb 21, 2018
    FastHands(beeb), Feb 21, 2018
    #13
  14. lloydturnip

    lloydturnip Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,231
    1,654
    Sep 5, 2016
    Old ennry would of dined out on that for years!.made hay with dropping clay imagine if he had one!.yeah Yeah yeah spash it all over!!!
     
    lloydturnip, Feb 21, 2018
    lloydturnip, Feb 21, 2018
    #14