How would Jerry Quarry be viewed as a contender in the 40's?

I agree with all this

 

So do I.

 

I have never bought into the idea that Quarry would have been a champion in most other eras, and that he was just unlucky to share an era with Ali and Frazier.

I see him more as somebody who might have been champion in a weak era, if he got the right breaks, but might just as easily not have been.

 

However you rank walcott higher and you see him like a champion in several eras(who got tons of defeats against nobodies too,yes yes excuses for every defeat i know).

 

Very favourably I should think. The Trainer in my avatar Jimmy Glenn is a big Quarry fan.

 

mistaken post--sorry

 

Another mistaken post. My posting on this thread has been a problem.

Just on Walcott, he is a difficult guy to get a handle on as he was just a trial horse for years, before turning it around. Reminds me of Basilio, who lost a lot until he turned it around and then went on to win both the welter and middle titles.

 

The least that we would have to say for Walcott, is that he was a champion in one era.

It is not a huge leap of faith, to suggest that he could have been champion in others.

 

I think someone should defend the 1940's here. Certainly a tough decade to evaluate because of the impact of WWII.

I have sympathy for downplaying "murderers row" talk about fighters who flourished during WWII when such a large percentage of the young male population was in the military. Competition should have been frayed rather than peaking.

However, perspective is needed. Quarry not only lost in very one-sided fights to Ali and Frazier twice each, but lost to Jimmy Ellis, who was the actual paper champion. So how does Ellis compare to Bivins. Bivins record was 86-25-1 in 112 fights. Ellis 40-12-1 in 53 fights. My calculator comes up with a .768 winning percentage for Bivins versus .755 for Ellis. Ellis was stopped 4 times in 53 fights. Bivins 5 times in 112 fights.

"Hatchetman Sheppard"

Who would think of him as Bivins' toughest heavyweight victim? He lost 2 of 3 to Maxim, 4 of 6 to Murray, lost to Moore and Melio Bettina, etc. Off record, Melio Bettina and Bob Pastor are probably Bivins' best heavyweight scalps.

"Johnny Allen, Roy Lazer, Abe Simon, Tony Musto, Lee Q. Murray, Charley Roth, Altus Allen, Johnny Flynn, John Thomas, Phil Muscato"

I'm not certain what these men have in common, but this is certainly not a list of the best 1940's contenders.

A better bet for the best contender would be Elmer Ray, who was 81-12-3 with wins over Charles and Walcott. How does Quarry compare with him? I pick Ray.

Quarry was a reasonable 53-9-4. Lou Nova was 49-9-5 and Joe Baksi 60-9-3. Pretty similar. By the way, both Nova and Baksi were taller and heavier than Quarry, as were a lot of 1940's contenders.

My take is that there might have been more depth of good fighters (separate from the "great" fighter(s) floating above the division like Louis, Ali, and Frazier). As Quarry was in and out against these types of fighters, I suspect he would lose more often back in the 1940's. Why did the 1940's have more depth? Well, there was the influx of black talent in an era in which other sports were segregated, but also boxing was still a mainstream sport for white Americans. Between 1965 and 1975, Quarry was the ONLY American-born white heavyweight to be rated in the top five. The next best? Off the ratings, probably Chuck Wepner.

 

Frazier did beat quarry in a one sided fight? What **** is it? A one sided fight is not called the fight of the year

 

How competitive was the 1960 Patterson-Johansson fight? It was The Ring's fight of the year.

I have seen the two Frazier-Quarry fights. I think them one-sided, if exciting beat downs.

 

You are scared of a guy who doesn't fall for your pathetic "straw man" traps, really what is the purpose of that? Can you at least acknowledge that nowhere in my post did I say Quarry couldn't beat those guys? I specifically even said he would win some...for crying out loud, this is either deliberate trolling or you have a mental handicap. I guarantee your balls will not fall off and die if you just fess up and admit to misrepresenting my point.

We both have access to the same resources so I won't list names, but I really don't see a case for Quarry here. Charles' against HWs is vastly superior. Even as a MW and LHW, Charles fought and beat HWs most of his GOAT contender career.

Has nothing to do with race, you goof.

Marshall would be a top rated LHW in the early 40s, and would be a threat to a younger 180-195 pound Jerry Quarry if they crossed paths. I assume this would be Quarry's 65-75 arc mapped out from 40-50. Not an idolized prime 200 pound Quarry in every fight.

Not sure that is accurate. Bivins was described as a counter puncher and was noted as the aggressor in key HW wins over Murray and Tami.

Not sure I would agree with that.

For Bivins best HW wins I would go with:

Murray II in 44 was a tremendous win within context.
Tami I & II
Pastor II

You are the one that suggested him as Bivins' best win. I think he was one of the all time dangerous journeyman/fringe contender types with a contender for the best KO win of all time but I don't agree at all with your assessment.

I don't believe Hatchet ever outweighed anyone by 30 pounds, and in general I would say was the lighter guy in most of his fights. You seem to be confused, which isn't surprising given how many straw men you build in a single post. Maybe you should just stick the actual points and arguments being laid instead of imaginary ones.


Anyone that liked your post here should be ashamed of themselves, they obviously have no regard for facts and prefer weird sensationalism.

 

I concur. From 1900-2018, I'd say that Quarry's best chances would've been 1900-1918.....he probably would've been number 2 to Dempsey but who knows, he had a reasonable shot at an upset...the late 1920's to early 1930's. Jerry Quarry could've potentially beaten a come back Dempsey, Gene Tunney, Jack Sharkey, Max Schmeling, Max Baer, Young Stribling, Tommy Laughron and Primo Carnera. Or, anyone of them may have beaten him. I don't think he'd have gotten past Joe Louis, even as late as 1948. Though he'd be remembered as one of Joe Louis' most notable opponents. I'd give several late 1940's fighters good chances against him like Elmer Ray, Curtis Shepherd, Jimmy Bivins, Archie Moore but I'd also give Jerry Quarry a good chance to beat either one of them.

I'd favor Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles and Rocky Marciano over Jerry Quarry. I'd also favor a young Floyd Patterson over Quarry. Eddie Machen, Zora Folley, Mike Dejohn all have a good chance at beating Quarry and in fact, Machen as an older fighter did beat Quarry.

Jerry Quarry would have a decent shot against a prime Sonny Liston due to styles, but I see Liston hurting him and stopping him. But if we're going on the same timeline, beating a prime Liston wouldn't have made Quarry the champion because Patterson was the one that was reigning anyway. Light heavyweight champion and heavyweight contender Harold Johnson is another one who may or may not have taken Jerry Quarry. I'd favor him over Ingemar Johannson and think Quarry could've snatched the heavyweight title for a short while if he could've gotten a fight with Johannson after he beat Patterson.

But that would've been short lived with Patterson and Liston still lurking around and strong challengers like Henry Cooper and Doug Jones, both of whom could've been legitimate threats to JQ. Although, they weren't anything JQ couldn't potentially handle.

Then we have the rise of a prime Muhammad Ali and outside a lightning streak of luck, you can forget about Quarry reigning from 1964-1967. Perhaps if Ali never came along and Liston reigned say from 1962 to the end of the 60's or even 1970, Jerry Quarry would've had a good chance to overthrow an old, tired shopworn Sonny Liston.

But then you'd have Joe Frazier lurking in the shadows and we don't have to guess how Quarry would've done vs Frazier. Since Quarry actually did fight in the 70's, no need to speculate. If a prime Quarry fought the version of Ali that Leon Spinks did or if he fought Leon Spinks after Spinks beat Ali, then that would be another sweet spot in which he could've been champion.

In the late 70's if Quarry came up then, he'd have Larry Holmes in his way. I don't see him beating Holmes. But even in the 80's, you had guys like Witherspoon, Pinklon Thomas, Carl Williams, Tony Tubbs any of whom could've handed Quarry a loss. Perhaps he'd have a chance to beat Michael Spinks, but that's not a given as Michael Spinks could've beaten Quarry as well. He likely could've beaten Trevor Berbick as well to capture a belt.

He isn't beating a prime Mike Tyson.

Maybe he beats Tony Tucker to capture a belt, maybe he doesn't. But I'd actually back a prime Tucker.

He might have beaten an out of shape Buster Douglas. He isn't beating a prime, heavyweight Evander Holyfield. Nor Riddick Bowe or Lennox Lewis. He may or may not have beaten Michael Moorer.

I don't see him beating either K2 brothers. I doubt he'd beat Anthony Joshua. He may have a chance to beat Wilder because of styles and I think he'd hit hard enough to hurt Wilder. But Wilder could knock him cold.

 

Yes it was taken in his bar, Jimmy's Corner West 44th st N Y