How Would Joe Louis Have Fared Against Frazier In 71?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Fergy, Sep 9, 2021.

  1. AdamT

    AdamT Active Member Full Member

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    Louis was a phenom of a puncher, with one of the greatest jabs ever

    He also could finish better than anyone

    Although he had good hand speed his foot speed was lacking

    Frazier was relentless. His movement and crowded style will give anybody fits and we know he doesn't mind a fire fight inside. That left hook is one of the great punches in the divisions history

    I honestly think the gap of class jumped a fair bit in the years from Louis to frazier

    It's difficult to pick an outright winner and although I have no doubt Louis was greater foe his time, that is obvious. We can't ignore that joe was very successful in the toughest era in the divisions history and only big George could really man handle him

    I think gun to head I pick frazier late, but he would have to come through a war, but again we know he can do that
     
  2. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Definitely better than Ali. I don't think that fighting on inside all night long against Louis without granite chin and top tier punching power is a good idea. Of course, Frazier is as good as anybody in his game, but I don't think he'd sustain the damage Louis would give him.
     
  3. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Joe would win.

    Having made that joke, I will make my key observation.

    It would depend upon how Louis adapted to Frazier's style.

    If channeled the tools that he had, into an effective stylistic response to Frazier's style, then he would absolutely destroy Frazier.

    If he did not, then he would look like a robot malfunctioning.

    Either way, you have to think that the man walking into Louis, is probably going to come to a bad end at some point.

    As Louis's manager, I have my concerns!
     
  4. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Bergeron Avatar Club Full Member

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    Just include a rematch clause.
     
  5. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Always a death sentence with Louis, in the unlikely event that you are alive at the final bell!
     
  6. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I would favor Louis to win by stoppage. But Frazier’s handspeed, heart, work rate, and upper body movement would make it a very exciting fight.
     
  7. DavidC77

    DavidC77 Active Member Full Member

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    I'm sure Louis once said he was fortunate that the thing most of his opponents never did was the thing he was most vulnerable to...

    Crowding and smothering.

    In that case, I think the Frazier of March 1971, with his constant bobbing, weaving and pressing would wear Louis down and eventually knock him out.
     
  8. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ridiculously hard to beat Joe Louis coming to him all night. His blazing hands and pinpoint precision would see him win via TKO for mine. He also had an extremely effective uppercut.....hell he had everything offensively one would ever require. Too much precision and firepower.
     
  9. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    I do have that in mind with this match up tbh. If a fighters not comfortable with a swarmer type leaning in to you then Frazier's your worst nightmare.
    I And there's that left hook to consider.
     
  10. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I've never bought into this supposed weakness against pressure fighters which gets bandied around. Fleet footed boxers would be his stylistic challenge as turning him often and preventing him getting his feet planted was the best way to trouble him. Arguello was similar. Both barely ever if ever punched without being planted.
     
  11. Kamikaze

    Kamikaze Bye for now! Full Member

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    :lol:
     
  12. CharlieFirpo85

    CharlieFirpo85 Member Full Member

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    I say Louis. But its more like a 60/40 thing to me. I see Frazier eating some crisp right hands. No idea if he can withstand 2-3 of them, keep the pressure high and bringing his left hook into the target. But on the other hand maybe Fraziers workrate will be too much for Louis.
     
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  13. Pugguy

    Pugguy New Member Full Member

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    Whatever the prediction I think this makes for a really great fight. A choice fantasy pick.

    I don't know that Frazier is as necessarily made to order as some scenarios would have it. If Louis did see Frazier off as neatly as some predictions, I'm guessing it would still be a WOW performance/result even in the minds of those predicting same. Would Frazier's scalp on his record not present as possibly Louis' best opponent and, if so, perhaps entertainment of Frazier's chances deserve more pause?

    There is of course the Godoy analogy but Frazier brings a far more effective, stylistic aggression to the table. There's the broad category of swarmer but perhaps Frazier could justifiably be described as THE swarmer's swarmer. No let up. Not to oversimplify but it does seem that there are primarily two distinct scenarios. One, Louis working both the long and short punching game to perfection on a slow starting Frazier. Louis' one punch to multi punch power combos being enough to have Frazier rocking and rolling, piling on uninterrupted heavy damage and seeing Frazier off in say, 4-5 rounds. I actually think Frazier had an excellent chin but being a slow starter and coming on to punches when properly timed were Frazier's biggest vulnerabilities. Some cases in point, Bonavena, Ramos, Foster and even a later round wobble courtesy of a Bugner right cross that Joe came onto, adding to the force impact. Of course, that was past peak Frazier.

    For mine, I still can't see Foreman losing the distinction of being the only guy able to do what he did to Frazier in Jamaica. Foreman was that much bigger again than Louis, stronger and hit that bit harder in terms of single shots. George's power shoves, which Louis would not employ, also kept Frazier off him and put him in perfect punching range and made no mean contribution to brevity and emphatic nature of George's victory. Perhaps if anything or if at all, Foreman v Frazier II might be a closer fit to how Louis might methodically dismantle Frazier. Under Clancy, Foreman was much better metered and selective with his punches, careful not to gas so quickly. A really impressive performance. Unfortunate for Frazier, since he tried to fight more evasively, trying to drag Foreman into deeper waters and drown him in fatigue. Mind you, I still thought George was puffing pretty hard by fight's end. Any which way, It still takes some serious grunt to put out Frazier. LOL.

    Otherwise, scenario two, Joe somehow cops the pummeling, buying enough time to start smoking. Fair to say, if Frazier is still in front of you by rounds 5 on, then you've taken some hits and cannot avoid even more hurtful return fire that will surely come your way. Frazier might've been a savant with the left hook but what a hook that caught the very best absolutely cold!

    Finally, I think Frazier's performance against Ali in 71 was well compromised of Joe's pathological hatred toward Ali. It raised him to his most sublime performance. There's no way Joe could hold any ill will, let alone hatred, toward the Brown Bomber. Everybody loved Louis. LOL.
     
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  14. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I agree with most all of this, adding that part of the types he could not handle is elite SHW sluggers.
    Except Ali was not prime in 1971. He was markedly inactive, rusty, & had lost significant foot speed & endurance.
    Ali would win in his prime.
     
  15. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Great analyses, although cagily non-commital! Without the outrage, Frazier would go from favored to at best 50-50 by my lights.
    But he would still be super-motivated with tremendous heart, & Louis could not pull an Ali-style clowning con-job disguising if he was hurt!

    You are very new. Care to introduce yourself & how you got here?
     
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