How would Ken Norton fair if he was around today ?

I agree I prefer the term 'clinically obese', bodyfat of 30%++, BMI (body mass index) of 30+, and 'likely heart attack victims that shouldn't pass be allowed to pass a medical and be granted a boxing licence'

 

I think 50/50 are awefully generous odds to be giving Norton against either of the Klitschko's. I also think that its a bold statement to make that the difference between Vitali's punching power when sized to Holmes or Ali is only marginal. Nevertheless, you seem convinced of these two notions, so I'll just leave it at that.

 

If Vitali's power is so impressive then why did his best opponents get stopped faster by other opponents? Just look:

Danny Williams KO losses: KO3 Audley Harrison, KO6 Sinal Sam

Corrie Sanders KO losses: KO2 Nate Tubbs (1 punch), Rahman KO7

Byrd: Ibeaubuchi KO5 (1punch), Wlad KO7

Lennox: McCall KO2 (1punch), Rahman KO5 (1 punch)

Yet Vitali threw the kitchen sink at these men and didn't do near as much concussive damage

 

1. What is the relevance in stating that Ali has better wins that Vitali? There is not a soul* on earth who will deny that.

2. Almost all of those knockouts came in the mid rounds. Norton?
Foreman TKO2. Shavers KO1. Cooney KO1. Garcia is the only exception here, but then again, no one would know him if he hadn't knocked out Norton.

As for implying that Byrd has lesser punch resistance than Norton is nothing short of insane. Let's see how many rounds Norton would go with an animal like Ibeabuchi or peak Wladimir, whom he (barely) went the distance with. Both will eat him up and stop him inside 2.

Same for Lennox, you've picked two fights in which he was stopped, but fail to mention all of the big punchers that did not stop him. I've never seen anyone stupid enough to say that Lewis actually is less durable than Norton. atsch


Sanders and Williams do have very weak jaws, although Williams has excellent recuperative abilities. Seeing as how you're a Brit, i'm sure you've seen the Harrison fight. He took a spectacular amount of punishment and was finished on his feet, TKO3 not KO3. And again, you fail to mention how he went the distance with Harrison (and beat him) in their first.

3. Who claimed that Vitali would KO Norton in the early rounds anyway? I'd say he grinds him down to a mid-round TKO, and i think that's pretty much the consensus to those who pick Vitali to beat him. V. Klitschko usually wears his opponents down, and is very efficient at doing so. When he can get an early knockout he'll go for it though, like how he overwhelmed Johnson early. And given the fact that Norton can't handle pressure, there's a decent chance of that happening to him as well, although my money would be down on a mid-round stoppage.


*excluding Mendoza

 

According to your argument, all body builders and powerlifters are "clinically obese" as well. BMI is a standard, for a normal person, not a trained athlete.

Help me out here. Is this obese?

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Now look at this disgusting, clinically obese guy:

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Damn the weights. There should be a super HW division anyway. Just on heart alone Norton would be HW champ today!

 

As Chris pointed out, you're using selective data but not telling the whole story about these guys. Chris Byrd outboxed David Tua for 12 rounds, and so did Lennox Lewis. Both men took shots from multiple big hitters. Corrie Sanders had a weak chin, but then again his losses were usually more attributed to conditioning than anything else. Also, could you please tell me how many times Ross Purity, Vaugn Bean and Larry Donald have been Ko'd? For some reason these men never made your list. If I wanted to use such selective criteria, I could say also say that Norton was Ko'd by a 188 Lb journeyman, with a record of 12-2-1-6. Then draw a conclusion that sounds something like this " just imagine what Wlad or Vitali would do ". But I don't.

 

He'd be something like 40-10(10KO) or thereabouts, a journeyman, at best get into boxrec heavyweight Top 50 occasionally, but not for long. Everybody would know very soon that all you need to do is pressure him for a couple of rounds and he gets KTFO'd.

 

Boy ya gotta love the balanced views on this forum. You got one guy who thinks Norton would dominate the division as though he were Mike Tyson during the 80's, while another claims that he would be no more than a mere journeyman. atsch

 

1. Your giving the 'Vitali is a destructive puncher because he has a 90% KO ratio', his comparative **** poor opposition needs highlighting

2. Yes and Vitali's opponents were KO'd against **** poor fighters faster than Vitali could. Norton's KO loss to Shavers was at the age of 35, the KO loss to Cooney he was shot to pieces and there to pick up a cheque

3. The implication is simply Vitali didn't have the same power of his bigger hitting contempories and even some averaging hitting contemparies for that matter, assuming he hits near as hard as Shavers and Foreman is foolish.

4. Lennox is allot more durable than Norton. Lewis was ko'd twice from 1 punch though. I'd say Lewis has a good chin. I'd also say Norton has a good chin, despite KO losses where he took the kitchen sink from all time punchers.

5. Yes I've seen the fight, seen most of Audley's fights, Harrison is poor though, journeymen laugh his shots off and the fact he took Williams out is telling. Again what I'm trying to demonstrate is Vitali simply isn't a big hitter

6. The facts indicate Vitali isn't bringing power or offense to the table greater than a Holmes/Ali. Ali and Holmes have far far better stoppage victories than VK does. So if Holmes/Ali (who had an 80% KO ratio at the time) aren't putting Norton away, the slower, easier to hit Vitali doing so is exceedingly unlikely.

I think Norton can punnish Haye and Vitali for fighting with their hands low, but Wlad's power and technical ability may stop him.

 

Where did Norton show he could deal with pressure and hard punch? Nowhere? Only a fool may think he'd be anything more than journeyman with such weakness.

 

I agree with general consensus here that the Klits most likely beat Norton, but apart from that I think he would do quite well. In the 90's he would perhaps be no more than a journeyman, though. Too many big punchers.

I'll give Quarry a decent chance of beating Vitaly on points, though. Mr. Bill feels that Quarrry had a hard time with bigger opponents, but that's not quite true. His three best wins (Lyle, Macfoster, Shavers) were against bigger guys with serious power. Norton and Ali wasn't just bigger, they were quick and skilled as well.

Vitaly's lack of speed may allow Quarry to stay in the pocket, and his power might not be enough to discourage a guy who traded with Shavers. Quarry's susceptability to cuts would be problem for him, though.

 

Gotta love this place.

Okay, i won't argue with you anymore on this particular subject. Your argumentation has more holes in it than Swiss cheese and when i dealt with them last time it didn't get through your thick skull, so i won't be bothered to do so again.



If you want to believe that Vitali Klitschko, a man with 35 out of 36 wins coming by way of knockout is not a big puncher, that Williams is clinically obese because of his BMI, and that Norton vs Vitali would be 50/50, more power to you. :good

 

Norton took a succession of hard punches from Shavers and Foreman and many others in the same situation would go down. He needs to keep his distance, keep moving and use his jab effectively in the early rounds. But he did seem to freeze in those losses (Foreman, Shavers, Cooney) when he's in trouble like Bruno (but he was facing some monster hitters). i'd advise any big puncher going against Norton to go for the kill early - your best bet at winning. Norton has more chance of winning the longer the fight progresses - he was always in excellent shape.

 

Yes, although beached whale is just as good a description (and that suit flattered Williams hes a fat can of lard)

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