How would Luiz Ortiz fare against the golden age heavyweights like Ali, Foreman, Liston, Frazier

Not good,,

 

Ortiz would struggle mightily against the top heavyweights of the era. He would, however, have a very good success rate against most of the next level of men from that era.

 

As much as it may perturb the nostalgists, Ortiz from half a dozen years ago would probably beat all of them.

The best southpaw Ali ever fought was 49-2-3 Mildenberger in a highly competitive fight, which went 11.5 rounds (154-144 punches landed out of 612-538 thrown according to Compubox). Mildenberger was 195 lbs, billed as 6'1.5 with a 73 inch reach. He was a Euro champ as a pro and a German LHW champ in the amateurs. 31% KO ratio, 0 KO's in his previous 5 fights, against the much smaller heavies of his day. KO'd twice in 54 fights prior to fighting Ali (once in the first round) and he had been dropped numerous times.

Mildenberger was the best southpaw of that era. Liston opponent 32-5-1 Zeck was another one, Mildenberger beat him twice. Zeck took Liston to the 7th and gave him a good fight. Holmes never fought any southpaws as a pro but fought one in the amateurs (a hard-punching future journeyman), who KO'd him twice. I don't believe Frazier fought any southpaws. Old Foreman fought Moorer, who was piecing him up before Moorer's LHW chin failed him in the 10th.

Of course, many like to pretend that the southpaw stance doesn't matter because it doesn't favour pre-Klitschko heavies, even though boxers regularly say that southpaws are "awkward" and "a nightmare", in eras where they are many times more common and it's thus far easier to prepare for! In past eras they were going to struggle mightily against half-decent southpaws by default, yet alone very good or excellent ones, which didn't exist. Among names in the 90's only Holyfield fought a few good ones and he had a 1-3 record against them. Louis said he wanted nothing to do with them after getting schooled in the gym by a LHW southpaw. Tyson, Lewis and Bowe never fought any.

Ortiz has a far more extensive amateur background than anyone in that era, 362 bouts, training with Cuban amateur legends. He has no doubt studied the heavyweights from 50-60 years ago extensively and has modern advantages in terms of training and "nutrition". He'd be a tall, rangy HW in that era with freakish power and at least 10 lbs on Foreman, if not 20 lbs, with superior skills and handspeed. It's a bit of a nonsense to compare. We had this to an even greater extent the other day with "Fury vs Marciano: who wins?"

 

Ortiz has always been past prime and not particularly great. Decent at best. They'd murder him.

 

Jesus! Ortizn't has to be the most overrated HW of the 2000's. Prime Foreman would have smashed him to bits, Frazier would have took him into deep water and drowned him, Liston would have smashed him to bits in 4, Holmes would have jabbed his face into mince meat and Ali would have boxed rings around him!

This is a man who couldn't take out Dave Allen in spite of Allen being ill prepared and who's best defensive move was putting his face into Ortizn'ts fist.

I'd fancy Ron Lyle, Earnie Shavers, Ken Norton, Jimmy Young, Jerry Quarry and Joe Bugner, all active, hard hitting, in shape 15 round fighters in their day.

 

He's slow, he ponders, he's not a good combination puncher, he can be hurt.............I say he get's knocked out multiple times before he even gets a title shot.

 

Spot on. I have never bought into the Ortiz hype.

 

He would have beat Foreman Fraizer and Liston but lost to Ali.

 

Based on what ?

 

Needing to pump up Wilder's resume more than likely.

 

Luis would have been in early 30's around that era.

So I give him a good shot of being a top contender.

 

Blond Ortiz does as follows:
1. Mows down Norton, Patterson, and Quarry.
2. Pick em against Frazier and Foreman. Variables are at stake, such as Ortiz potentially outlasting Foreman or Frazier potentially outlasting Ortiz. It's also unclear how effective Frazier's hook would be a against a huge, rangy southpaw.
3. Loses to 60s Ali, beats late 70s Ali, gives early 70s Ali a run for his money.
4. No pick regarding Holmes since his am career ended with a stoppage loss to a southpaw and he never fought another one.
5. Liston didn't fight guys like Ortiz and would be unprepared.

There's a reason why a shot, legless Ortiz was beating the crap out of Ruiz in round 12.

 

Well, he was in his physical prime back then. Too bad he didn't turn pro a bit earlier.

 

Ortiz would have been a water carrier back in the day...