How would M. Spinks have done against Dempsey's and Marciano's Challengers ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by he grant, Aug 21, 2014.


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  1. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Joe Louis, Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles does not seem like White dominance and Marciano was Italian from emigrant parents that was an American citizen not everyone considered him white American the fact that he beat the best available white and black guys that were rated # 1 should not be held against him like it is. If Marciano were black he would be rated higher in an ATG sense I believe
     
    Bummy Davis, Aug 23, 2014
    Bummy Davis, Aug 23, 2014
    #76
  2. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Ernie Shavers and Jimmy Young dont beat a lot of champions without being very lucky. Ken Norton has more chance but even he lacked championship mettle when it counted since his best performances were not in title fights. A champ brings his A-game to a title chance.

    ALI was done after Manila. Dosnt matter what age he was up until then Ali was an ATG. after that Ali was still the man to beat and knew how to kid the rounds even if everyone around him knew Ali was damaged goods.

    Doctor Ferdie walked away from Ali. Nobody was walking away from Walcott, Charles or Moore because they were done, bad legs or any kind of noticeable physical deterioration rather than style adjustments.
     
    choklab, Aug 23, 2014
    choklab, Aug 23, 2014
    #77
  3. Bullet

    Bullet Member Full Member

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    Spinks was not smaller than any of those, except Brennan perhaps ?

    lol at ****ell being censured.
     
    Bullet, Aug 23, 2014
    Bullet, Aug 23, 2014
    #78
  4. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I think Mike wouldve done remakably well. his opposition was not that much bigger or stronger than him

    Walcott, Firpo, wouldve wasted him though
     
    redrooster, Aug 23, 2014
    redrooster, Aug 23, 2014
    #79
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I just want to get this straight , you don't consider Rocky an American?


    Or the public didn't see him as such?
    Do you know how utterly desperate this makes you appear?
     
    mcvey, Aug 23, 2014
    mcvey, Aug 23, 2014
    #80
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    This post makes a lot of sense until the underlined.

    No Foreman

    No Shavers

    Was pounding on them.

    Moore was dropped and in serious jeopardy against Durelle
    Charles never won a meaningful fight after Marciano.

    Walcott collected his pension plan and bid farewell .

    Let's not pretend they were anything but ring- worn goods,
     
    mcvey, Aug 23, 2014
    mcvey, Aug 23, 2014
    #81
  7. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    No they were not ring worn goods in the way you want to describe them until AFTER Rocky went through them. Marciano finished Charles and Walcott off. Moore dropped a level but had a good career to continue.

    Walcott and Moore were strong veteran fighters at their career peaks. Charles wasn't even a veteran. His career started all over again at age 24 refreshed after the three years in the army. Charles fought in high class but was continually active only for as long as Rocky had been profesional and in all that time only Walcott had beaten him decisively since the war.

    George Foreman lost to Ali at the age Charles was against Marciano. I recon Charles was where Ali was with his career as a fighter in 1974 the night he fought Marciano. How far away was Ali in 1974 than he had been in 1970? Charles was on world form. As was Ali in 1974. Not the best ALi but still capable of greatness.
     
    choklab, Aug 23, 2014
    choklab, Aug 23, 2014
    #82
  8. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He was certainly an American but with Louis,Walcott and Charles proceeding him I don't think it was an era of white dominance as HeGrant stated and while Italian is absolutely white I dont think the Klu Klux Klan would make him or barney Ross their poster boy

    I know it bothers some people that he was so good
     
    Bummy Davis, Aug 23, 2014
    Bummy Davis, Aug 23, 2014
    #83
  9. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Ok Bummy, let me make it clearer .. From Sullivan to Joe Louis, 1882 to 1937, every linear heavyweight champion was white except Jack Johnson. From 1937 till the Klitschko brothers, almost sixty five years, every heavyweight champion excluding 30 seconds of Ingo and Coetzee had been black excluding 51 - 55, Rocky's reign. That's not a coincidence, that was the erasing of the color line. At the same time baseball erased the color line and the sports world was changing .. my point , and it is one that Russell Sullivan writes about in vivid detail in his excellent bio on Marciano, The Rock of his Times, is that in a changing America, Rocky had an iconic appeal to much of white America that saw the pigmentation of their championship athletes changing .. this is no knock to Rocky if one looks at him objectively but simply a fact ... by now generations have passed and he has grown to many those who still follow the sport as almost a sacred figure who never , ever, got tired, never , ever got hurt, had "that something extra" , ect ..

    I just feel that far more than any other fighter on this board he is looked at by many through rose colored glasses that defy any logic ... I've written time and again, give the man his due which is substantial and move on ..
     
    he grant, Aug 23, 2014
    he grant, Aug 23, 2014
    #84
  10. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    It's pretty simple .. most of the fighters you mentioned were not ht good and once they fought stiffer competition they started losing. Mathews, Layne, LaStarza and ****ell were nothing special , ever .. I'd pick Tommy Burns over every one of them. The fact that Louis was # 2 shows a weak division .. Walcott retired, of course, he was done at pushing forty .. No doubt Rocky pounded the hell out of an old Moore but then again , Archie was close to forty if not over it .. what do you expect ?
     
    he grant, Aug 23, 2014
    he grant, Aug 23, 2014
    #85
  11. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    janitor, Aug 23, 2014
    janitor, Aug 23, 2014
    #86
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    McGrain, Aug 23, 2014
    McGrain, Aug 23, 2014
    #87
  13. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    janitor, Aug 23, 2014
    janitor, Aug 23, 2014
    #88
  14. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I'm a big Marciano fan, but this is the truth.
     
    fists of fury, Aug 23, 2014
    fists of fury, Aug 23, 2014
    #89
  15. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I don’t buy it.

    There was something wrong with all of his title challengers, that allows you to simply wipe them off his record, yet he was the only heavyweight champion in history that consistently met their current No1 contender?

    No!
     
    janitor, Aug 23, 2014
    janitor, Aug 23, 2014
    #90
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