How Would MIKE TYSON Do Against The All-Time Greats?

By Monte Cox


Jack Johnson


Johnson was big, strong, and fast enough to compete with modern heavyweights. However, his chin was in serious doubt as he was dropped by middleweight Stanley Ketchel and was also kayoed by 168 pound Joe Choysnki. Johnson’s defensive reputation does not stand up either. As Tyson said in the Sports Illustrated video, “Tyson and the Heavyweights”, 1988, boxers in his day threw two or three punches at a time. The old time fighters were simply not adept at throwing multi-punch combinations. Johnson would simply slide back and pick the punches out of the air. Blocking punches in this manner would be very difficult to do today. Tyson would overwhelm Johnson with his speed and powerful combinations. Johnson would be unable to cope with Tyson’s swarming attack and “consistent punching”. Tyson wins this match up by crushing TKO within seven rounds.

Update 2004: I have seen more films from this era than I had in 1992, though I had seen Johnson against Jeffries, Ketchel and Burns. While it is true that fighters did not throw as many combinations pre-1920’s they did sometimes throw 4-5 punch combinations. I have Joe Gans on film doing this. Gans and Johnson both were from the same black school as George Dixon and Joe Wolcott (they had the same manager and trainer). Jack Johnson was sparring partner for Walcott as he grew up.

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Johnson blocks a jab in exactly the same way as Dixon demonstrated in his 1891 instruction book. Johnson’s was a master at the almost lost art of feinting and was a superb counter-puncher. He could glove block, parry, slip and even dance out of danger when necessary though he fought flat-footed most of the time so he could fight 40 plus rounds if needed. Under modern rules he would be able to be a much more mobile fighter and he had the ability to do it with no problem.

What we know about Tyson now that we didn’t understand off his then lone loss to Douglas was that Tyson’s weaknesses were mainly psychological. He had a front-runner mentality and tended to quit mentally when faced with aggressive counter punching. This weakness always existed in Tyson; one can see his psychological weakness in his amateur career once it had been exposed. Remember him breaking down and crying in a well-known home video from the Jr. Olympics? Atlas also once told a story how Tyson almost destroyed another fighter but when the guy refused to quit, it was Tyson who almost quit and he yelled, “Don’t you do it Mike!”
Tyson didn’t always fight with “consistent punching” either, he would allow his opponents to grapple and clinch inside and didn’t always go to the body as he should have. Joe Frazier would get both his hands free and bang to the body, Tyson didn’t do that. He did not have good inside fighting skills. This is even evident in the prime Tyson in his fight with Bonecrusher Smith. Johnson, like Ali, was a master of the clinch and would be happy to accommodate Mike with the clinch inside. Today I believe Johnson, if he fought a smart fight, which he usually did, would be able to avoid Tyson for the first few rounds and discourage him with strong counters like Holyfield did, and eventually wear him down and probably knock him out.
So here I reverse my 1992 analysis and pick Jack Johnson by late rounds TKO.

Jack Dempsey


One of Tyson’s ring idols. Tyson loved Dempsey for his “viciousness”. Tyson often fought in a similar fashion. The biggest difference here is size. The “Manassa Mauler” developed a reputation for destroying much larger men. But heavyweights like Luis Firpo and Jess Willard did not possess Tyson’s sovereign speed and power. Tyson would enjoy nearly 30 pounds in weight, greater physical strength, and superior handspeed.

The fight would be brutal with both men rocked by serious blows thrown with “bad intentions.” Tyson is not susceptible to the one punch knockout. He absorbed the hardest shots that Razor Ruddock could deliver and fired back quickly. A fun fight to watch while it lasted which would be about two rounds with Tyson looking down at his fallen hero.
Update 2004: The notion that Tyson could not be knocked out with one blow has been confirmed. In all of his losses he had to be beaten over the course of the fight. Douglas gave him a beating over 10 rounds; Holyfield over 11 and Tyson could not get inside Lewis height and reach and succumbed in 8. So I do not believe Dempsey would be able to take Tyson with a quick knockout.

Tyson and Dempsey have so much in common, Tyson’s patented right to the body came right from Dempsey, his non stop bob and weave, in his prime came from Dempsey, his all out attack from the first round came from Dempsey. As much as I love Dempsey he would be basically fighting a bigger, stronger, and faster version of himself. Dempsey was rugged, tougher and could fight better when hurt but I just don’t think he would recover quick enough against Tyson to survive.
Result: Same.

 

Gene Tunney

Two-time conqueror of Dempsey, had the boxing skills to frustrate (an off peak) Dempsey in analogous fashion to the Douglas-Tyson upset. Despite Tunney’s skills he simply would not have the strength to keep Tyson off him. Gene would be backed up, beaten to the punch, and hammered from all angles. His legs and chin might allow him to last three rounds but no more.

Update 2004: Well I really use to under-estimate Tunney he really was a superb boxer and a good counter-puncher, good enough to frustrate even Tyson. BUT I don’t think the 190-pound Tunney could hit hard enough to keep Tyson off him, so that remains the same. Even though it might be interesting for a couple of rounds I think Tyson nails him and one punch, body or head, is probably all he would need against a smaller fighter who could not hurt him. Remember Mike Spinks?

Result: Same.


Joe Louis This might be one of the best match ups ever made. The cold calculating boxer-puncher against the fiery inner rage and fury of Tyson. This one has three possible outcomes:

Louis is completely routed and blown out in the first round by a savage Tyson attack. This is the least likely scenario as Louis was famous for his recuperative power. Joe could be hurt by a punch and still give you the impression that he wasn’t hurt with his deadpan glare. Louis would then counter punch with frightening power.
Louis uses his masterful jab and sharper boxing skills to out think and punish Tyson over the course of the fight. Joe gets the better of the exchanges on the outside and finally rips his strong uppercuts and hooks to stop Tyson in the mid-late rounds vis-à-vis Arturo Godoy and Buster Douglas.
The third possibility is a hard fought 12 round decision. Louis would not enjoy the 83-inch reach, foot speed or lateral movement that Douglas used to frustrate Tyson. A Louis-Tyson fight would be a slugfest. Both Louis and Tyson are debilitating combination punchers. It would be an exciting fight all the way but Louis’ jab, ring strategy, and his ability to carry out Jack Blackburn’s fight plan would allow him to capture a close decision.

Rocky Marciano

This fight would not be as good as some people would like to think. Marciano was dropped by a 38 year old Jersey Joe Walcott left hook in the first round of their 1952 title fight. He was also floored by a 42 year old light-heavyweight in his title defense against Archie Moore. Marciano never defeated a heavyweight who would rank in the top 10 today. Can any sane person picture a fighter weighing only 185 pounds defeating Iron Mike Tyson? Rocky would come out and position himself right in front of Tyson. Mike who is stronger, faster and more powerful with either hand would crush the Rock. Marciano would fall like Berbick and out-gunned like Frazier was against Foreman. Tyson by a stunning 2nd round TKO.

2004 Update: I have continued to rate Marciano in my top 10 all time heavyweights. The top heavyweights in 92 were Tyson-Bowe-Holyfield-Lewis-Ruddock-Witherspoon, so saying that Marciano had never faced a heavyweight of that quality was true. I have to agree with this analysis. Tyson would just plow through Marciano, no small cruiserweight no matter how hard he hit is going to beat Tyson, especially standing in front of him. No way.

Sonny Liston

If anyone could intimidate Mike Tyson it would be Sonny Liston. Liston’s awesome 84-inch reach, destructive jab, and deadly hooks and uppercuts would spell trouble for Iron Mike. As Tyson moved in he would be greeted by Sonny’s thunderous long jab. Liston was at least Tyson’s equal in terms of sheer power. Sonny was also under-rated as a boxing technician. Liston would hammer Tyson at long range, control the tempo of the fight, and batter Tyson much worse than Douglas ever could. By the eighth round Tyson would have trouble seeing Sonny’s punches and a murderous barrage would send him down for the count.

Update 2004: Wow. I wrote this description in 1992 and it would have almost fit his fight with Lennox Lewis almost perfectly. The fight ended in the eighth round, Tyson was cut over his eyes, and he could not penetrate the bigger mans left jab. Liston’s reach is also the same as Lennox Lewis. This was sort of my upset pick in 1992 but it does make sense and I will stick by it.

Joe Frazier

Smokin’ Joe was a great pressure fighter who was relentless with body punching, hooks and workmanlike consistency, which would wear down most of his opposition. Frazier was at his best against stick and move boxers like Ali and Ellis. But against a really heavy hitter his chin was susceptible. Frazier was a notoriously slow starter, while Tyson became famous for his demolition first round knockouts. Tyson would swarm all over Frazier like a pack of killer bees. Tyson may not float like a butterfly, but his sting is much worse than any bee. Tyson scores an early knockdown and halts a defenseless Frazier in the fifth with his sizzling uppercuts as in the Bruno fight.

Update 2004: Joe took a few rounds to start “Smokin”, and he normally didn’t warm up to this task until about the fourth round. That would be too late against Tyson. Down two times in the second round against Bonavena in their first fight, down in the second round against Mike Bruce, nearly dropped in the 2nd round of the 2nd Ali fight if not for an early bell, and downed 6 times in two rounds by Foreman in their first fight, Frazier would succumb to the shocking power of Tyson.

Result: Same

George Foreman

Many fans would loved to have seen this slam-bang affair. Though this fight nearly came off in 1990-91 it is the prime George that would be the true test. George is similar to Liston in many respects. Foreman possessed the awesome jab, but it came at the end of a reach that was 5 inches shorter than Liston’s. Even so he had 8 inches in reach on Mike.

Tyson, in his prime, would exhibit the head movement and defense necessary to come in under George’s looping punches. Tyson’s handspeed would allow him to counter successfully. Ruddock was an easy target for Tyson and George would be no different. Ruddock said in his post fight interview when asked about the first knockdown, “I was surprised by his speed at that point.” Jimmy Young proved a first rate counter-puncher could outwork Foreman on the inside. Tyson would fight with spirit, punching to the body and astonish George with quick counter punches to the head. After five rounds Foreman would begin to tire. If Ron Lyle could drop Foreman twice, then Tyson, a far harder puncher and better finisher than Lyle, would keep him there. Tyson the winner by convincing knockout in seven rounds.

Update 2005: This is the only result I have changed since I redid the article in 2004. Frank Lotierzo wrote a fairly convincing piece on the subject that one can view here: Why We Never Saw Foreman-Tyson Cus D'Amato and Tyson use to study films of George, not ever thinking that Foreman would ever meet Tyson in the ring. Cus told Mike that no swarming fighter who ever lived could ever beat George Foreman. This is likely the primary reason the Tyson-Foreman fight did not come off in 1990-91. The intimidation factor would belong to George and once Tyson is unsure of himself he would be defeated psychologically. Tyson with his short arms would have had many of the same problems as Joe Frazier did in getting to George. Inside hand speed would probabbly not be a factor, as George would catch Tyson coming in. Just a bad match up for Mike overall.

I could see either scenario my 92 analysis or Frank's 2004 analysis. But given what we know about Tyson now and the style factor I think George must be given the nod.

Result: Foreman by knockout

 

Muhammad Ali

Ali had the perfect style and ring psychology to beat Tyson. In “Muhammad Ali: His Life and Times” by Thomas Hauser, all five people associated with Tyson picked Ali in a dream fight over Tyson. That list included Tyson trainers Kevin Rooney and Teddy Atlas, former manager Bill Cayton, and former D’Amato champions Floyd Patterson and Jose Torres.

I always felt Ali could beat Tyson. In the Sept 1988 Ring Magazine, I had a letter published, "Tyson Versus Heroes of the Past" where I noted Ali's "amazing speed and footwork would easily frustrate Tyson." This was when Tyson was undefeated and at the peak of his popularity. I concluded that, "Ali defeated quality fighters such as Sonny Liston, Ron Lyle and Earnie Shavers who would have went tooth and nail with Tyson. Ali's results with such fighters speak for themselves...I submit to you that Ali would have stopped Tyson." When Buster Douglas defeated Tyson with a similar -stick and move- style to that of Ali I felt vindicated.

Buster Douglas used Ali type tactics to aggravate and frustrate Tyson, the long jab, lateral movement, and quick combinations from the outside. Ali’s chin is also generally regarded as the best in division history having successfully absorbed the bombs of Liston, Frazier, Foreman, and Shavers. Ali would control the ring center in punishing Tyson. Ali would be talking to him using psychological warfare to make the defeat total. Ali by late TKO or clear unanimous decision.

Update 2004: Ali by TKO- once frustrated Tyson can be taken apart.



Larry Holmes

Shortly after having won the most satisfying victory of his career by decisioning Ray Mercer, Holmes said there was one man he would not fight, Mike Tyson., Tyson of course brutally kayo'd Holmes in 1988. The prime Holmes would had the same tools that Douglas used to beat Tyson in 1990. However, a properly motivated Tyson would still be very dangerous for Larry. Holmes always had trouble with pressure. He was on the verge of defeat against Mike Weaver in 1979, from Weaver’s body attack. Holmes was lucky to get a close decision over Tim Witherspoon who used inside pressure to bother Holmes in 1983. Worst of all, Larry never learned to bring his left hand straight back after jabbing. His jab was very quick and heavy but this fundamental error nearly got him kayoed against Earnie Shavers and light-hitting Renaldo Snipes. Faster and stronger Tyson would wreck Holmes game plan with pressure and break him with devastating shots to the head and body. Only Holmes’ strong chin and legs would help him to survive. Tyson by late Kayo or unanimous decision.

Update 2004: I don’t think Tyson would be able to pressure Larry inside like Weaver and Witherspoon did because he never learned to free his hands and punch like Joe Frazier and “agreed” to clinch way too much. On the other hand if you look at their actual fight, Larry, though past his prime, still maintained the great jab and much of the skill that had made him a champion as his later success against Mercer demonstrated. The version that fought Tyson was better than the one who beat Mercer. Larry jabbed, danced, was up on his toes, but the end came with sudden destruction once Tyson landed. It’s not like Larry ran out gas it only went four rounds. Holmes had lost very little in terms of his fighting skills at that point. He was in very good shape for this fight as well. I think this just may be an instance were Tyson had the speed and style to get to Larry where other fighters had not.

Result: Same