How would prime Antonio Tarver do against prime Sven Ottke?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by bailey, Jul 20, 2012.


  1. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Why not?

    Was Roy Jones a paper champion in the divisions he won world title fights in, between winning the MW title up to his fight at HW with Ruiz?
    Read on....

    At MW Jones won a vacant title against a then unknown unaccomplished fighter in Hopkins. Should Jones have been declared as the MW champ for this win or should that honour have gone to J Jackson who although also won a vacant title fought at a higher level and won his vacant title against a then higher rated more accomplished fighter in H Graham.
    Should Jones have been declared as the man at MW?

    At SMW Jones beat Toney who wasnt a great SMW and didnt have a very good SMW resume. N Benn and C Eubank were more accomplished champions who were fighting at a higher level.
    Should Jones have been declared as the man at SMW?

    At LHW it is without a doubt that Michalczewski was the man at LHW.
    The Ring LHW title disappeared in the 80s and reappeared in the 90s where it just handed its belt to R Jones, but if the line of you have to beat the man to be the man had been followed, the belt should have been handed to Michalczewski for his victory over V Hill. Dariusz was the WBO LHW champ but he also won and vacated the IBF & WBA belts before Jones won them. Also Michalczewski beat Rocchigiani who was wrongly stripped of his WBC belt.
    So Michalczewski had claim to every one of Jones belts and should have been Ring champ.
    Michalczewski was the MAN at LHW.
    Should Jones have been declared as the man at LHW?

    At HW Jones beat Ruiz but I doubt anyone felt Jones was the man at HW with L Lewis as champ. Still same question to the fans. I remember a comment that Ruiz beat Holyfield who drew with Lewis.
    Should Jones have been declared as the man at HW?


    It does appear that Jones fought some good fighters but never against the top man of any division up to his fight with Ruiz and was only ever a paper champion in these divisions. Also Jones was fighting alot of gimmes and beaten fighters.
     
  2. Mind Reader

    Mind Reader J-U-ICE Full Member

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    So was Calzaghe the man at LHW?? Was Bernard Hopkins? Was Tarver? If it were Calzaghe in Roy's shoes, you would be saying... DM lost to Gonzalez who Calzaghe beat and was well regarded as the best fighter in the world.
     
  3. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Hard to say.
    What Calzaghe did do was beat The Ring champ for what thats worth and beat who was then considered the best, and who whether the line is followed correctly or not, did become the champ after.

    With Jones/Michalczewski, Jones was awarded a belt that should have been given to the true champ Dariusz
     
  4. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Bailey,

    You didn't own ****! Me and zod owned you with cold hard facts, not just our opinions. I proved that Calzone was completely full of ****. Zod also posted a hilarious video of joe dismissing Roy at the beginning of 2008, before he fought him. Then you were trying to argue than Roy was the same at 40, as what he was at 31, even though you'd got a video of joe saying otherwise. You're a joker mate! Only you could criticise Roy, whilst bigging Sven up at the same time.
     
  5. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Bailey,

    Answer this question, and give us all a laugh. Roy fought Reggie J in 1999, a year before Hall. Do you think that version of Roy, was the same as the version that fought Hanshaw in 2007? Ha!

    Seriously though, no hard feelings, I do enjoy our debates, even though I think you take LSD.

    Regards, Loudon.
     
  6. rrk

    rrk Member Full Member

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    To answer the original question about prime Tarver Vs prime Ottke. I think Ottke had a kind of style that could cause Tarver problems. I have seen plenty off both Ottke and Tarver fights and there is just something that suggest to me that Tarver could fall into the same trap as many fighters that were supposed to be better than Ottke has done and fight Ottkes fight. However i still think Tarver would have won for two reasons.
    1. He is better than everybody else Ottke has fought. ( and there was enough of close fights on that account)
    2. He is significantly bigger.
     
  7. Mind Reader

    Mind Reader J-U-ICE Full Member

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    This is just it... You can't discredit Jones too much because it starts to cut into one of Calzaghe's greatest accomplishments...

    Calzaghe won the ring belt which I have seen you praise him for, which was the same belt Jones held, defended and eventually lost, but Jones was just a paper champ? Wouldn't that mean Calzaghe was holding a worthless belt? Because Jones was never the man?
     
  8. rrk

    rrk Member Full Member

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    secondly if look at Ottke´s resume. I believe the resume on paper i very good however there is a lot of question marks about the record:
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    the then IBF SMW champ for the title, beaten twice: First fight was a home town decision or as minimum really close, Could most likely have gone the other way in the US. scoring of the 2nd fight was alright as far as i remember.
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    who went on to become the Ring & IBF LHW champ. Limited knowledge so not gonna comment.
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    who went on to become the WBA LHW champ
    Se above
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    who went on to become the 2 time WBA SMW champ
    A knock out is a knock out - good win no further comments.
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    the then WBA SMW champ and 2 time WBA champ: Close fight
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    the former WBC SMW champ and still world class
    Disgusting work from the ref and a robbery
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    the former WBO MW champ (a smaller fighter). have not seen it but not a very convicing performance from what i have heard.
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    world class who went on to become European champ. Some cried robbery some did not. I am pretty sure ottke would have lost if the fight had been in Denmark.
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    world class who went on to become European champ. Markussen did not do enough and the scores were more or less right.
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    Loads of controversy about the first fight,Tate should have won. The 2nd was a technical decision and given rightly to Ottke if i remember correctly.


    The bottom line about Ottke´s record is that as good as it is on paper there are some decisions that were undeserved and could easily have gone the other way if Ottke had fought on hostile or at least neutral ground.
     
  9. Atlanta

    Atlanta Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    DQ round 1 for hitting Sven in the face.
     
  10. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Haha! That's about right.
     
  11. Edward

    Edward Active Member Full Member

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    What weightclass are we talking about? 175? I have only see a couple of Ottke's fights (he's nowhere close to being as bad as people make out) and my impression is that he'd be undersized at lightheavy.
     
  12. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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  13. SJS19

    SJS19 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think a peak Tarver stops him Bailey. (Do me a favour and dispense with the 'form line' rubbish, it means nothing in this sport.)

    I think Tarver had the jab to dictate to Ottke the dynamic of the exchanges. Sven would also be moving up in weight, which may impact his footspeed slightly. AT had the patience and composure to set traps and capitalise. (Tarver was VERY under rated.)
     
  14. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    All fighters look different in different fights against different comp. Just look at how Hopkins was flopping to the floor against Calzaghe but looking amazing against Pavlik, or how Calzaghe looked fast and strong against Lacy but sloppy against Bika. Both those examples were the very next fight, so you cant go on that.
    What I did do was present you two videos and you have never once given a straight answer to that
     
  15. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Good post.
    Tarver is definately bigger but remember Ottke did beat Johnson who beat Tarver