How would prime Antonio Tarver do against prime Sven Ottke?

bailey · Jul 21, 2012

Mind Reader said: ↑

This is just it... You can't discredit Jones too much because it starts to cut into one of Calzaghe's greatest accomplishments...

Click to expand...

I wouldnt want to discredit him at all. Not sure what you are on about though because I said he was a paper champ who shouldnt have been just awarded the ring belt

Calzaghe won the ring belt which I have seen you praise him for, which was the same belt Jones held, defended and eventually lost, but Jones was just a paper champ? Wouldn't that mean Calzaghe was holding a worthless belt? Because Jones was never the man?
Click to expand...

As said, possibly so? But also as said, Calzaghe WON the Ring belt, wasnt just awarded it, which is a big difference and beat the #1 LHW which Jones didnt, and the fighter Calzaghe beat went back to become the Ring champ.
Get the differences?
Click to expand...

bailey · Jul 21, 2012

rrk said: ↑

secondly if look at Ottke´s resume. I believe the resume on paper i very good however there is a lot of question marks about the record:

Click to expand...

Fair comment though I would add fans who didnt watch his career are responsible for alot of that

This content is protected
the then IBF SMW champ for the title, beaten twice: First fight was a home town decision or as minimum really close, Could most likely have gone the other way in the US. scoring of the 2nd fight was alright as far as i remember.

Click to expand...

Ottke proved his point a twice and the first time won a world title in his 13th fight.

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

Click to expand...

bailey · Jul 21, 2012

SJS19 said: ↑

I think a peak Tarver stops him Bailey. (Do me a favour and dispense with the 'form line' rubbish, it means nothing in this sport.)

I think Tarver had the jab to dictate to Ottke the dynamic of the exchanges. Sven would also be moving up in weight, which may impact his footspeed slightly. AT had the patience and composure to set traps and capitalise. (Tarver was VERY under rated.)
Click to expand...

Do me a favour also. Tell me did you watch Ottke when you would have been around 10? I remember you saying you are early 20s.
The form line is used all the time, but people dont like it when used, when its a fighter they dont want to win. Now I agree you cant strictly go by the form line, but it does give a bit of an idea, but far from complete I would add.
Tarvers jab is slow and Ottke would be in and out alot, which I dont think Tarver would time easily

SJS19 · Jul 21, 2012

bailey said: ↑

Do me a favour also. Tell me did you watch Ottke when you would have been around 10? I remember you saying you are early 20s.
The form line is used all the time, but people dont like it when used, when its a fighter they dont want to win. Now I agree you cant strictly go by the form line, but it does give a bit of an idea, but far from complete I would add.
Tarvers jab is slow and Ottke would be in and out alot, which I dont think Tarver would time easily
Click to expand...

So my age dictates what I can and can not have a valid opinion on? I've taken the time to learn and respect the history of the sport. I've seen Ottke fight, it was of personal intrest to me, seeing as he's often referenced to both Calzaghe and Jones. Yeah Bailey, I'm 20 years old; try debating Ali, Leonard, Jack Johnson, Julio Cesar Chavez or Langford with me, see if I'm up to scratch.

Tarver's jab is well timed, which is the answer to Ottke's rythm. Tarver has had problems with fighters who get close and rough him up. Ottke isn't doing that. He'll move in and out as you mentioned, and get timed. Tarver dictates the terms of this fight IMO.

bailey · Jul 21, 2012

SJS19 said: ↑

So my age dictates what I can and can not have a valid opinion on?
Click to expand...

Its not an insult, but you would im guessing have been around 10? With that a 10 year old often is swayed in opinion and doesnt remember things as well as an adult in general and often isnt up late enough to watch the fights.
Did you watch them and how old were you?

I've taken the time to learn and respect the history of the sport.
Click to expand...

No doubt, im sure you have, but you dont get a true idea, when not living the moment. Once again thats not to insult.
A good example would be when people talk of the Benn/Eubank rematch. the country wanted to watch it. Every pub had it on, every kebab van etc and the hype was unreal. You wouldnt know how big it was unless living it.

I've seen Ottke fight, it was of personal intrest to me, seeing as he's often referenced to both Calzaghe and Jones.
Click to expand...

Then you have probably only seen a few fights im guessing.
You dont seem a bad guy, but probably some of the hype that was then you wouldnt appreciate, like how Reid wouldnt fight calzaghe when he was WBC champ, and how Reid lost it with Calzaghe at a press conference and how Calzaghe had glass put in his food and drink before the fight. there was that much tension and how pubs were packed for that one. It was a big fight between world class SMWs. If you were there to watch it, you would have seen the best and worst of Reid before he fought Calzaghe, when he looked good away to Nardiello but then just didnt do anything against Malinga, where they went a round without a punch of note landing

Yeah Bailey, I'm 20 years old; try debating Ali, Leonard, Jack Johnson, Julio Cesar Chavez or Langford with me, see if I'm up to scratch.
Click to expand...

Im not here to judge and wouldnt be able to tell you about J Johnson other than what I have read and with that wouldnt try and debate on the subject.
You are younger than I first thought even. So probably really wouldnt remember much on it all.

Tarver's jab is well timed, which is the answer to Ottke's rythm. Tarver has had problems with fighters who get close and rough him up. Ottke isn't doing that. He'll move in and out as you mentioned, and get timed. Tarver dictates the terms of this fight IMO
Click to expand...

Ottke is strong on the inside and many fighters had good jabs that Ottke was able to move in and out from
Click to expand...

Loudon · Jul 21, 2012

bailey said: ↑

Lots of things get said including this

" I was one of his biggest fans but you have to question why his performance levels completely dipped from the moment it transpired a few years ago that he had failed a drugs test in a fight in Indiana against another american, Richard Hall. All of a sudden, he fell from the premiership to league 2, from being absolutely peerless, to distinctly average "

" If I had of fought Jones at his peak and got beaten, I would feel swindled today, knowing that he had taken steroids. Its cheating, theres no other word for it, and I don't know how it managed to be swept under the carpet for a number of years and he went totally unpunished "

" If steroids can make athletes run faster, they can surely help a boxer to hit harder and to hit faster and to hit quicker and to hit for longer and this will help him to inflict more punishment, which I think is repulsive"

I asked you what was different, other than the opponent, and thats something that you and Zod have failed to answer when the videos are in front of you.

That was owning at its best

Was Ottke a proven cheat?
Click to expand...

Once again more bollocks by Joe! It wasn't all of a sudden was it? It was four years later when he lost. When he lost he was 35, he'd had 50 fights, and he'd had the hardest camp of his life getting from 200 pounds to 175. But wait, none of that had anything to do with it right? He was just missing his Christopher Reeve smarties? You've already admitted that Johnson was a journeyman, so how did he manage to beat Roy?

I don't give a **** what Joe says, I've exposed him in my other thread. You know I have, and all you can say is, that I'm splitting hairs. What have you got to say in response to zod's video? You can't defend what he said!

I've explained in detail the difference between the two versions of Roy, on two occasions, and asked you the Reggie question three times, that you continue to ignore, so how the **** have you owned me??
Click to expand...

SJS19 · Jul 21, 2012

bailey said: ↑

Its not an insult, but you would im guessing have been around 10? With that a 10 year old often is swayed in opinion and doesnt remember things as well as an adult in general and often isnt up late enough to watch the fights.
Did you watch them and how old were you?
No doubt, im sure you have, but you dont get a true idea, when not living the moment. Once again thats not to insult.
A good example would be when people talk of the Benn/Eubank rematch. the country wanted to watch it. Every pub had it on, every kebab van etc and the hype was unreal. You wouldnt know how big it was unless living it.
Then you have probably only seen a few fights im guessing.
You dont seem a bad guy, but probably some of the hype that was then you wouldnt appreciate, like how Reid wouldnt fight calzaghe when he was WBC champ, and how Reid lost it with Calzaghe at a press conference and how Calzaghe had glass put in his food and drink before the fight. there was that much tension and how pubs were packed for that one. It was a big fight between world class SMWs. If you were there to watch it, you would have seen the best and worst of Reid before he fought Calzaghe, when he looked good away to Nardiello but then just didnt do anything against Malinga, where they went a round without a punch of note landing

Im not here to judge and wouldnt be able to tell you about J Johnson other than what I have read and with that wouldnt try and debate on the subject.
You are younger than I first thought even. So probably really wouldnt remember much on it all.
Ottke is strong on the inside and many fighters had good jabs that Ottke was able to move in and out from
Click to expand...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex1TX2Vp3pQ&feature=channel&list=UL[/ame]

That documentary is well worth your time. (Assuming you have some to spare.)

I'm 20, and only just. I've boxed since I was 10, and transitioned to training kids in the last few years. In terms of Boxing, I'm much older than I am physically. Now, I appreciate that living in the moment has certain qualities, people will debate the excitement around Mayweather vs Hatton in years to come, and I will labour to make the same points you are now.

I would argue that having come along later, I'm able to look back with a clear view. No media bias, no fan bias; I just see the fight.

I've seen Reid fight Calzaghe, and I had JC winning by the skin of his teeth, it's still his toughest fight for me. I do think Reid beat Ottke. All of which is irrelevant to the thread at hand.

Yes Sir, Ottke dealt with good jabs. Please bear in mind that Tarver is a LHW and a big one at that. Ottke never took on anybody that big to my knowlege. He can fight on the inside (Glen Johnson, who I think Ottke did beat) but Tarver can use his jab to dictate the distance, and once Ottke does get in close, he's still the much smaller man.
Click to expand...

Loudon · Jul 21, 2012

bailey said: ↑

All fighters look different in different fights against different comp. Just look at how Hopkins was flopping to the floor against Calzaghe but looking amazing against Pavlik, or how Calzaghe looked fast and strong against Lacy but sloppy against Bika. Both those examples were the very next fight, so you cant go on that.
What I did do was present you two videos and you have never once given a straight answer to that[/QUOTE

I've told you three times!

Stop comparing two similar fight sequences, and look at the facts.

Roy in 2000 = slightly past his peak at 31 years of age. Considered the best fighter in the world.

Roy late 2008 = way past his peak, 9 weeks from his 40th birthday. 3-3 in his last 6 fights. His legs weren't the same. He'd lost his amazing footwork. His punch resistance had diminished. His great reflexes had diminished. His hand speed was pretty much the same, but he was hampered due to his legs. On top of all of the above, his crushing knockout defeats had destroyed his once supreme confidence!

You have no argument against any of the above!

In 2006 Joe said a lot of the above.

In the video that zod posted the other day from 2008, Joe again says that Roy wasn't great anymore. You love posting videos of Joe up, so what have you got to say about that?

Stop being silly, and think about what you're saying from a logical point of view.

How can Roy have been the same at 40, as what he was when he was 31, taking into consideration everything I've said?

Think about it, before you respond.
Click to expand...

Loudon · Jul 21, 2012

SJS19 said: ↑

So my age dictates what I can and can not have a valid opinion on? I've taken the time to learn and respect the history of the sport. I've seen Ottke fight, it was of personal intrest to me, seeing as he's often referenced to both Calzaghe and Jones. Yeah Bailey, I'm 20 years old; try debating Ali, Leonard, Jack Johnson, Julio Cesar Chavez or Langford with me, see if I'm up to scratch.

Tarver's jab is well timed, which is the answer to Ottke's rythm. Tarver has had problems with fighters who get close and rough him up. Ottke isn't doing that. He'll move in and out as you mentioned, and get timed. Tarver dictates the terms of this fight IMO.
Click to expand...

Hiya pal, nice to see you back on the forum. I always enjoy reading your posts. Thanks a lot for the links, I really appreciate it.

SJS19 · Jul 21, 2012

Loudon said: ↑

Hiya pal, nice to see you back on the forum. I always enjoy reading your posts. Thanks a lot for the links, I really appreciate it.
Click to expand...

:hi:

Thanks and you're welcome. I'll upload the one remaining show tomorrow.

Did you see Jones' last fight?

eazym1979 · Jul 21, 2012

Ottke was a very good fighter but is grossly overrated

Natural1 · Jul 21, 2012

Closer fight than a lot of people expect. I really don't think Ottke is nearly as horrible as people make out. He had a very effective style to outpoint guys that he developed in the amateurs. It wasn't quite tailored to perfection for professional boxing, but he was still effective, and a smart boxer. He has some decent wins in his career like Johnson, Reid, his BRUTAL KO over Mundine (despite being more feather fisted than Malignaggi), Branco, and Pudwill.

Lol yeah the running jokes about him are kind of funny, especially seeing some of his pictures, but the guy was a solid boxer.

In the end, I think Tarver's range would be too much, and would lead to a 9-3/8-4 type win for Tarver.

Loudon · Jul 21, 2012

SJS19 said: ↑

:hi:

Thanks and you're welcome. I'll upload the one remaining show tomorrow.

Did you see Jones' last fight?
Click to expand...

Thanks Scott!

Yeah I've see it three times now. I knew he was going to get the decision, because they want him to fight Wlodarczyk in Nov. It's heartbreaking to watch him, just hope he doesn't get hurt when he goes back. His jab looked pretty sharp, but his legs have gone. Have you seen it? Did you here Tom Yankello yelling at him to get some life in his legs? I felt sorry for Glazewski.

SJS19 · Jul 21, 2012

Loudon said: ↑

Thanks Scott!

Yeah I've see it three times now. I knew he was going to get the decision, because they want him to fight Wlodarczyk in Nov. It's heartbreaking to watch him, just hope he doesn't get hurt when he goes back. His jab looked pretty sharp, but his legs have gone. Have you seen it? Did you here Tom Yankello yelling at him to get some life in his legs? I felt sorry for Glazewski.
Click to expand...

I had Jones losing by two points. He'll get battered in his next fight and it's exactly what Polish Boxing wants. I was in the RBR on here, and was saying that his legs are totally non existant. His balance is also shot to hell. He knocks himself of balance when he throws a punch. Honestly, Ali had better balance when he fought Holmes.

Loudon · Jul 21, 2012

SJS19 said: ↑

I had Jones losing by two points. He'll get battered in his next fight and it's exactly what Polish Boxing wants. I was in the RBR on here, and was saying that his legs are totally non existant. His balance is also shot to hell. He knocks himself of balance when he throws a punch. Honestly, Ali had better balance when he fought Holmes.
Click to expand...

Yep, it reminded me of the Lebedev vs Toney fight. I don't know a lot about Diablo, but his knockout of Danny Green was amazing! Have you seen it? He knocks him out with a left hook from nowhere. He'll walk straight through Roy, he knows he's done. He was ringside for the Glazewski fight. Whatever the outcome, Roy's going to fight at least two more times.

Log in or Sign up

How would prime Antonio Tarver do against prime Sven Ottke?

bailey Loyal Member Full Member

bailey Loyal Member Full Member

bailey Loyal Member Full Member

SJS19 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

bailey Loyal Member Full Member

Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

SJS19 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

SJS19 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

eazym1979 Well-Known Member Full Member

Natural1 Guest

Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

SJS19 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

Log in or Sign up

Forums

How would prime Antonio Tarver do against prime Sven Ottke?

bailey Loyal Member Full Member

bailey Loyal Member Full Member

bailey Loyal Member Full Member

SJS19 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

bailey Loyal Member Full Member

Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

SJS19 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

SJS19 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

eazym1979 Well-Known Member Full Member

Natural1 Guest

Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

SJS19 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

Loudon Loyal Member Full Member