How would Schmeling do in the 70's?

Not just back then, those measurements are never 100% trustful. Ali's reach has been measured from 79" to 84" depending on your source. That wasn't my point however. I thought you were digging up the old argument of how Bowe, Lewis etc were just a tad bigger than those 190lbs fighters and that they could carry the weight without losses, etc.

 

I think that Schmeling had the tale of the tape of a rangy cruiserweight like Holyfield and might have had the frame to carry 210 lbs in the ironpumping era.

 

How would Schmeling in the 1970's?

I think he'd do well enough. Say better than Bobbick, but not quite as good as Norton.

 

Schmelling in the 70s is an interesting thought.

He would start of campaining in Germany and Europe where he would beat most fighters and pretty much become the top European Heavyweight, by about 1969.

This leaves him with two big fights against two top contenders. First he goes to america to fight one of the best contenders of the time, say Jerry Quarry. THis is very much like the Johnny Risko fight and Max wins in the 9th when Jerry Cant answer the bell. He then fights Joe Frazier, who is considered by some to be the best fighter in the world and who would have an argument as the best in the world. Max wins on points over 15 rounds in a fight similar to the Paulino Uzcudin fight. In the next years he fights a top contender in Jimmy Ellis. Jimmy was considered one of the best on his day, but was a little inconsistent and ended up fouling out in the 4th, the same way that Sharkey did. Schmelling doesnt fight again until 1973 about 12 months later when he matches up with a top contender in George Chuvalo. George was one of the best around and was known to have a rock iron jaw, having never been knocked out at this point in his career, just like Young Stribling. Max Schmelling would stop him in the 15th. Max would earn a portion of the World title with this victory. Shcmelling makes his first defence against a very good fighter who was better at lesser weights in bob Foster and he hands Foster his first loss at heavyweight very similar to the Walker fight that ended by TKO in the 8th.

This left a dream match up in 1973 when he was matched against the big hitting american George Foreman. Foreman is an all time great, just like Max Baer and like Baer he wins by TKO in the 10th against Schmelling in what would be his best performance.

In Joe Frazier he fights the man who is considered to be best fighter in the world at the time or close to it, anyway. In 1974, Max has his first fight and loses it to a decent but nothing special fighter Buster Mathis on points over 10. He then is rematched later in the year with Frazier but only manages a draw.

In 1975, Max, after beating the German national champion, rematches Mathis and knocks him out in 9. He then gives Frazier a shot at a third match and actually beats him in 12 to ensure 2-0-1 Trilogy with Frazier.

In 1976, he is matched as the underdog with the USA's brightest young fighter in Larry Holmes. Holmes would later become one of the top 2 all time greats in most peoples heavyweight lists, sharing that position with JOe Lous!. Schmelling proved too good for Holmes by knocking him out in the 12th. Something that noone else would ever do to Holmes until the invincible young atg heavyweight Mick Tyson did it (like marciano) well over a decade later. Meanwhile, in 1976 Schmelling could not get a rematch with Foreman who had just been upset by the Cinderalla Man Jimmy Young. Jimmy Young chose instead to fight Larry Holmes and was knocked out. Larry then fought Max Schmelling in 1978. But by this time, Germany had been taken over the russians. They were threatening Max's whole family and were trying to take over the world with communism and this was seen as a communist vs free world fight of the century. Max had some wins against some decent fighters from Germany in preparation for this fight, but really the political pressure was massive. Max was getting old by this time and Larry Holmes slaughtered him in his most impressive victory ever. Holmes would go on to Knock out George foreman and beat every other challenger in his era.

In 1980 Schmelling did come back to fight the german champion, but he spent 1980 to 1986 visiting siberian POW camps until the cold war finished. In 1987, he would attempt a comeback and despite beating a couple of german fighters would lose his last two fights and retire.

Interestingly, in this scenario, Muhammed Ali would have never returned after retiring in 1969 and would eventually be considered as having a chin which would not stand up to the modern super heavy punches (just like Gene Tunney).

Now where would this rate Schmelling in the 70s and overall? I am not so sure and will need to have a think, but with a series win over Frazier, Loss to Foreman and a kO victory over Louis. I think he would probably have an argument as the best of the 70s. You would have to think that this would mean a top 10 atg position in most lists and top 5 in some. Realistically, he probably would rank just outside the top 10 atgs on that form.

 

Wow, great read. Thank you!
Well, i think he would rank Top5. Right now i have him at 14. Imo the 30s are underrated as hw era.

 

I have always probably agreed with the notion that Schmelling was a little overated, but after doing that analysis to the 70s I think it gives an appreciation of just how good he really was in his time. Certainly he is a lot better than i have ever thought.

 

Schmeling fought in an underrated HW- era, the 70s were definitely one of the best, but surely also the most overrated one. IMO Schmeling could have been champ, he´s better than the likes of Ellis, Norton, Lyle, etc. I would also favour him against Foreman, Ali would beat him IMO and Frazier, too.

 

I don't see Schmeling beating Frazier in '69/'70. Frazier is no Uczudun. I think his pressure gets to the German sooner or later.


And why would Ali not make his comeback? I know you like Schmeling, but preventing the Vietnam war would be one step too high even for him. Also, Ali took punches from Liston with no problem so i don't think the Tunney analogy goes.

 

Just a minor point but if Schmeling had come allong in the 1970s he would have been born in East Germany and would never have been alowed to turn profesional.

In this scenario he likley ends up as an all time great amateur boxer and possible olympic gold medalist.

In fact due to boundary changes the young Schmeling might have been born in Poland!

 

True. But i think we can assume that his family was one of the many who fled the red army and came to West Germany. The families of all my 4 grandparents did so for example - losing parents, siblings and all they had on the way.

 

I think magoo is right on the money. Too many good big men in the 70's. Max would be competitive for sure but has little chance of becoming champion.

 

Schmeling could take Bobbick and Norton in the same night.

 

Me too, but I am sure that if we both were around in maxs time, we would have thought that Uczudun would get to him also, but he didnt. Uczudun had an arguable claim as the best fighter at one point in time, like Frazier. He probably ranks about 3rd or so in his era, which is about where Frazier ranks. In its time, the wins were similar.

Because Russia were a much bigger threat than the Vietnamese and he decided to fight them but was injured in battle? or maybe because it just fitted in better with schmelling's career since ali was the world's best like tunney when Max burst on the scene, but he retired as unbeaten champion and never returned.

But Dempsey tested Tunney just as much and Tunney had been dropped less times than Ali had. Like Dempsey, Liston was old. Ali was thought to have a poor chin. For proof, look at an article which should be online called how i would have clobbered Clay, written by Joe Louis. Very interesting read, and imo close to proof of why Ali would have won Ali-Louis I. Without the second career, i dont think Ali is the no 1 fighter ever, because his chin is such a question mark and i would have never guessed it was as good as it was. Tunney is in a similar position, we all doubt his chin, but there is no evidence really that his chin is not every bit as good as Ali's. In fact, Tunney showed more heart and chin than Clay. (only because of circumstances and a longer career). He got up and came back from a bigger knockdown puncher than Clay ever did.

Without the second career, Ali has the same questionable chin as Tunney does.