How would the Rumble in the Jungle have looked if Ali was in his prime during the match?

Johns from Australia. It was 42 Celsius where I live today and where JT is (Queensland from memory) it's tropical and hot all year round.

I think he has a rough idea how heat works.

 

First off, Ali would have to be in the best shape of his young life. 15 rounds, dancing in Zaire is going to sap your strength for definite. I can't see him doing as he did against Liston for a full length of the fight. He'd have to adjust as it wears on, maybe even then bring in a variation of ropeadope, just to conserve energy. But Muhammed still going to be taunting his man and George still going to blasting away and therefor wearing himself out in the process. So, imo we get a little of each factor in this fight and the same result but Perhaps Muhammed being extremely glad that Foreman goes down first from the heat.

 

Ali wasn't prime for Cooper1.

 

Absolutely Griffo!!

 

The Ali of Zaire was a far cry from 67 Ali.

Ali wouldn't have to move for 15 and have a look at the blows he landed on guys, even starting from the first Liston fight. Ali didn't just dance around throwing a few light jabs here and there. He punished guys and seldom got caught cleanly in return. He wouldn't have to be dancing in the last rounds because i don't believe he'd be there. As Foreman tired Ali would dancing less and punching more.

 

Oh for sure. If anyone could get around him tho it was a young Ali who was probably the GOAT mover at Heavyweight.

 

Folks who are overimpressed with the likes of Camacho and Meldrick tend to drool over Ali peppering the corpse of Cleveland Williams, a nothing fight and a nothing result. The true greatness of Ali shown post-Manila... Coopman, Dunn, Evangelista, Berbick.... THAT was greatness!

 

This. Foreman might never have been looked at the same way from a historical perspective had that fight happened. George grew a champion's heart after Zaire, perhaps so much contact with the Greatest rubbed off (he proved his heart against Lyle, in spades).
The George who beat Norton and Frazier wouldn't have lasted much longer than Williams, though he might have rocked Ali with the hook once or twice (though the odds of him landing totally flush are kind of low imo).

Ali TKO in four.

 

I don't think it was the rope-a-dope that sealed Ali's victory, it was the mental psych out.

Ali was pretty terrible to George in that ring, and did what was considered impossible: he bullied him. As heavy and big as George was, when you look at the two men in the ring together he really didn't look too much bigger than Ali overall. He couldn't just push him off and get away with it, Ali had too much for smarts in that department and just smashed him with the sneaky right as punishment. George had a big problem whenever his jab was rendered useless: Ali's lead rights were neutralizing them.

You can see all the sneering Ali injected into Foreman; it seemed to me the clinches were designed for the former to shower contempt on George. To me all that ugliness served to mess up George's 70s career, he just didn't look as fearsome as he did against Joe and Kenny after that fight...just minute flashes in comparison. That's the reason George to this day blames Zaire on a subsequent, long depression...Ali kind of ruined him for awhile.

I think prime Tyson would have suffered the same fate in the 70s context...only Ali's bullying would have been even more pronounced against the smaller man and Mike would have been stopped earlier.

 

In Champions Forever, Ali mentioned that he was not able to dance and move after the first few rounds as he would have become too tired. No doubt the heat was a factor but it was 4am in the morning and therefore not as hot as people may think. The reality is that if Ali could have moved for 15 rounds, he most certainly would have - but his legs were no longer the same. That is why I think it would have been like the Williams fight. Ali moving quickly and peppering George with lefts and rights and being cautious of George's tremendous power. I do think however that Ali would have won quite easily.

 

Though George was obviously a greater fighter than Williams, I don't believe the pre- and during-Zaire Foreman had even the heart of Williams (who had his share of wars against killer fighters).

True, Williams a probably a bit worn by the time he fought Ali...I think what people here mean when they mention that fight is how Ali looked.

And in my eyes, the Ali who beat Williams, London, and Folley looked like the greatest, fastest, most untouchable heavyweight of all time. Full stop.

Just my opinion.

 

He took some really meaty punches in the 5th against Liston. Thing is, Ali had practiced his rope-a-dope since he was very young. He first put it into practice in the early rounds against Chuvalo, but George didn't get tired so Ali resumed moving again. I heard him talk about this in an interview after the fight.

 

I guess we have to agree to disagree. I take the young prime Ali over the old prime Ali in a head-to-head match-up any day.

I'd like to know how the 1965-67 Ali lacked guile, resourcefulness, or mental fortitude.

 

Did it look to anyone else that Ali was carrying Floyd...perhaps even in both fights? From what I've read, despite Ali's shenanigans he really liked Floyd.

There's one way I see Patterson as greater than Liston. Heart. Watch the first Ali fight and witness a champion...though heartily diminished.