How would you advise '19 Dempsey vs '73 Foreman?

Draw the color line.

 

Circle, counter, don't get caught coming in.

Probably prety much what he would do anyway.

 

Pray

 

It's on the first 1:30 of film following the opening bell in Toledo. This presumes Kearns isn't foolhardy enough to bet everything on a first round knockout by Jack, so Dempsey can use his speed, mobility and evasiveness to extend the big guy.

George was far more aggressive than Jess, and used his physical strength as aggressively as any heavyweight champion ever has. However, Willard was quicker, and had better defensive skills.

Foreman may have success cutting off the ring, but he'd find his non existent defense penetrated by the Dempsey power when he did so, a quality not shared by Young, Ali, and a faded and overweight Frazier. Jack's power will afford him the opportunity to move as needed, and extend the big guy.

Dempsey had enough power to hop Willard off his feet with a short hook to the body late in round three. Jimmy Young had success countering to George's body in San Juan. Jack would have a lot of target options.

This is a torpedo plane attack on an aircraft carrier. Each round which passes reduces Foreman's chances. He's too slow and too easy to hit. He tends to gas. If he did hurt Jack, Dempsey could be extremely dangerous when hurt.

Morrison did have success circling counterclockwise on Foreman, and Jack utilized some of this in the opening stages of round one in Toledo.

Personally, my preference would be to occupy Dempsey's corner for this one. 1973 Foreman would have serious deficits in speed, skill, experience, mobility and stamina to overcome. His face tended to swell quickly, and he could get cut.

Was Jack too small to hang with George? The smaller Peralta entered round ten twice against the Olympic hero, so no. Dempsey was clearly big enough.

 

great analysis

 

I agree with your analysis...Dempsey loved to fight the big boys as his record shows...He and Joe Louis had more trouble with the smaller agile boxers who used their wheels to avoid the Dempsey attack... Yes George Foreman was very big and strong, but one of Jack Dempsey's top sparring partners was also big and powerful, and Dempsey dropped big George Godfrey quite often in their sessions...

 

Foreman knocks dempsey out in the 1st round. Foreman was too strong, powerful for an 185lb brawler who liked to walk in face first with a low guard, and who was vulnerable to uppercuts and right hands. Willard was 37 year old out of shape completely talentless farmer with a pitchfork. Firpo, another joke of a fighter, nearly finished off dempsey with his ridiculous wild crude swinging punches.

 

The way Joe Frazier fought Big George in `76 was the right idea. He was able to land some good counters and avoid getting caught clean for a few rounds. I think in Joe`s case he was too far gone to get the fighting into the mid late rounds.

Dempsey would have to try something along those lines.

 

Frazier-Foreman would have been an extremely interesting peak for peak showdown, if Joe was matching him prior to the debilitating FOTC. A first match between them may well have resulted in a blowout win for George, as Bonavena nearly did to Frazier in their first match, and as Ingo did to Patterson in their opener. But Frazier then would emerge fresh, not having absorbed a sustained beating, and able to avenge such an outcome by drowning Foreman late. Joe utilized good angles of movement against Chuvalo and Stander. His power wouldn't be sufficient to hurt George early, but he'd understand that and aim for the double figure rounds, when he'd retain the power necessary to damage a fatigued Foreman much more substantially.

And again, I think the first 1:30 in Toledo to commence the most important match of his career proves that he'd opt exactly for such a circumspect beginning. [Amazing that he opened that way having just learned that Kearns bet everything on a first round knockout win. Take away that abrupt pressure on Jack, then we'd have a far more interesting display of extended boxing from Dempsey, as he'd likely play to wear down his rusty and aging opponent a bit in the scorching heat and humidity of that scheduled 12 rounder. He'd have definitely gone for the kill before the end, but we might have a solid several rounds of setting up prior to that conclusion.]

 

Do you think that Dempsey could beat Foreman in an embroidery bee?

 

Great post by Anubis.

I just can't see by Dempsey being ragdolled by Big George. I could see him having some success in the first round or two but in the end I think George savages him.

 

HaHaHa... you beat me to it!

Foreman would enjoy about a 2 1/2 - 3" height advantage, a 5" reach advantage, and about a 30 Lb weight advantage. I say advantage because they really would be advantages for Foreman.

Yeah, Willard was a big man but he wasn't shlt compared to Foreman. Foreman had a good jab, a good workrate, was very durable, very strong, and had great power in both hands.

Foreman KO2 Dempsey

Now, how would I train Dempsey for Foreman.

Nutrition- I'd have Dempsey eat a high calorie diet. Lots of lean protein, even a lot of carbs. Pretty much how Michael Phelps eats when he is training. Maybe be about 200-205 solid Lbs at fight time without sacrifing too much speed.

Sparring- I'd tell Dempsey not to beat the hell out of his sparring partners. I'd have him focus on outboxing his opponents. Work on sticking and moving... getting in, landing quick combos, getting the hell out. I'd have him work on counter punching... slip the jab, counter, get away... circle his opponent, make him work hard just to get close to you. We'd focus on clean punching, accuracy, speed, and being prepared for a long hard fight with a monster. Use plenty of different types of sparring partners, switch them up every 2 or 3 rounds.

Figh plan- Take what he did in sparring and apply it. He'd have to fight Foreman like he never fought any other fighter. He needs to understand that Foreman is not only bigger but he is stronger, punches harder, and can take a lot of punishment... and he's far from a slow clumsy fighter. He needs to stick to the fight plan. Mix hard shots into the combos but don't rely on power. When and if Foreman gets tired, unload with powerful shots. Focus on not getting hit, don't think you can run over Foreman, it ain't happening.

Other training- I'd have Dempsey do his normal cardio routine for the most part. There isn't a big need to add speed or even explosiveness. Dempsey is already quick and explosive and even if he lost a little speed while gaining some size and strength it would serve him well vs. Foreman. Beat the hell out of the bags not the sparring partners. We'd focus and being the best boxer/puncher that he could be. Dempsey would lift a lot of weight. Squats, deadlifts, military press, shrugs, bench press, bent over rows, curls, tricep extensions, and others. I'd have him push trucks around and Sumo wrestle... with real Sumo wrestlers.

After working with me... Dempsey comes to the fight at 204 Lbs. of ripped muscle. He has a 77" reach and is 6'1" but looks taller.

Long story short... Foreman still wins by KO but Dempsey has his moments. He wins several rounds by clearly outboxing Foreman and even rocks Foreman a few times.

Foreman KO13 Dempsey

 

Even if Dempsey comes in at 205 he isnt going to be able to match strength with Foreman. If anything that would slow him down and rob him of stamina.

Unless he can get into Holyfield`s stash then he may be able to add that kind of weight without hurting himself.

 

Isnt that racial B.S. getting a little tiresome ?...