How Would You Rate Mayweather, H2H, at Each Weight?

Well nowhere in my post was I saying he was the #1 WW based on resume. The threat title literally says h2h and that's what I've been arguing.

Comopletely disagree. Pac was a great fighter when Floyd beat him and was the #2 p4p fighter. Marquez was a great fighter and ranked high on the p4p list.

What was phenomenal was his consistency. He would always pick the big names/champions in the division and didn't milk out his belt defending against bums or journeyman.

Mayweather was TWO lbs over the 144 agreed upon limit.

I really don't get why people keep bringing this up as if Mayweather WOULDN'T put on a clinic picking him apart and winning a lopsided decision.

No one in the history of boxing won a fight because of a 4 pound advantage.

Again, I was not saying Floyd's 147 opponents were amazing head and shoulders above other people's resume.

I was saying it was phenomenal how consistent he was at such an advanced age with brittle hands and a defensive style. I wasn't making guys like Maidana or Ortiz out to be some godly top 5 h2h monsters or ATG's or something.

Me along with literally tens of millions of people on youtube, other forums, and writers who have exposed Pac for being full of it but you can look it up on your own time. I'm not getting into it again. It was nothing more than sad last minute damage control after losing and it was more transparent than a glass vase.

You are the only person I've seen argue this.

Plenty of people give a fighter tons of mileage for beating someone who goes on to become an ATG. Floyd will always be Canelo's daddy, that's why Canelo is so driven now because in the back of his mind he can't get over that loss.

 

Link?

Floyd probably beat more ranked southpaws than anyone of this century.

 

Floyd diminished his win by taking PEDS against a faded, injured version of Manny who he wouldn’t fight when he was prime.

 

Glass City Cobra,

I know this. But how could he be the GOAT at WW, even on a H2H basis?

He was still a great fighter, but not as great as he was when he was in his prime.

Okay. I can agree with that. His consistency and longevity were phenomenal. But his body of work at WW wasn’t.

Again, this is his entire body of work at WW:

Sharmba Mitchell
Zab Judah
Carlos Baldomir
Ricky Hatton
Juan Manuel Marquez
Shane Mosley
Victor Ortiz
Robert Guerrero
Marcos Maidana x 2
Manny Pacquiao
Andre Berto

There were very good, solid wins. Especially as Floyd wasn’t in his prime and he was at an advanced age for some of those latter fights. But they simply aren’t phenomenal wins.

You excuse this type of behaviour, but it just devalues the win.

Marquez then went straight back to LW afterwards.

In a career that spanned over 60 fights, he only had a handful of fights at WW.

Okay. Again, I can agree with this. But you never specifically mentioned his consistency in your earlier posts. It read to me as though you were saying that his quality of wins/opposition were phenomenal.

Are you saying that he wasn’t denied a pain killing injection before the fight?

Are you saying that he didn’t have shoulder surgery 5 days after the fight?

I have already acknowledged that he deserves a lot of credit and that the win enhances his resume. It absolutely does. But again, he only gets credit for beating the version of Canelo from 2013, who’d struggled with the likes of Lara and Trout. He doesn’t get credit for beating this current, prime version of Canelo.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...y?id=2113721&usg=AOvVaw0Qoww8B53mp5iryhuBnzFr

 

Lol at Winky getting a 50-50 split against Mayweather. You must not know about the Winky Wright School of Business.

 

What a surprise that this is your response.

Why wouldn’t Winky have gotten a 50-50 deal?

This was mid 2005.

Winky was the JMW champ.

His belts would have been on the line.

He was coming off of very big wins over Shane and Tito.

This was BEFORE Floyd had fought Mitchell and Judah, and almost 2 years before he’d fought Oscar and Hatton.

Floyd wasn’t a huge name back then.

He never deserved a bigger split than 50-50.

Floyd initially agreed to the 50-50 split. But then he wanted a 55-45 deal at the last minute instead. What a shocker.

There’s many ways for fighters to say no, without saying no.

Floyd was never getting a bigger split than a unified JMW champ coming off of 2 very big wins.

Floyd ran his mouth off like usual. But when it came down to it, he wasn’t willing to following it through.

If Floyd had been confident of beating Winky, then he’d obviously have taken the fight. So the fact that he didn’t speaks volumes.

Floyd didn’t want it.

 

130 - top 5
135 - top 5
140 - top 10
147 - top 10
154 - top 20

 

Because:

-He was undefeated
-Never knocked down, let alone knocked out
-rarely ever got cut, mauled, beat up, or left with severe bruises. Rarely got nailed by more than 1-2 punches in a row.
-has the highest hit % for accuracy in punches landed : punches blocked/evaded ratio
-remained consistently at the top world level in his late 30's and 40's when most boxers are washed up.
-beat men more than 10 years younger as an older fighter.
-beat men stronger, harder hitting, and more athletic with a very cerebral defensive style and having brittle hands.
-completely outclassed men on the p4p list and made them look like incompetent sparring partners.

On their own, all those stats wouldn't make anyone the h2h goat for a division but when you combine all of them he certainly has a case. Hearns and Robinson might be the only 2 fighter I would favor over Floyd h2h.

You're confusing great with athleticism again.

Pac was both more accomplished and a better overall fighter in 2015 than in 2009 when the fight was first gaining a lot of attention.

I think Floyd would beat the breaks off of him if they fought in their physical primes. Floyd threw a lot more and was an even sharper counter puncher and Pacuiao was much more reckless and turned his brain off lunging in. Floyd TKO round 11.

I thought it was phenomenal how he won like 10 rounds to 2 against Mosley who came off his biggest win and was ranked #1, even if Mosley was past his physical prime.

Phenomenal how he completely picked apart p4p #2 Marques like he was nothing.

Reduced Pacuiao the high volume pressure fighter to a tentative and meek boxer who rarely opened up and barely threw, let alone landed anything.

Prime Judah was actually a very good boxer and is now underrated because of how his career ended. Floyd had the disadvantage in hand speed and power and after making some adjustments, picked Judah apart.

You yourself agreed the Maidana fights were great performances given that Floyd was old, had a stylistic disadvantage, and Maidana came in at a whopping 160+ swinging for the fences with brutal power shots from round 1-12.

I guess you don't get what p4p means.

Neither Mayweather nor the sanctioning bodies forced Marquez to move up. He had the machismo to challenge the #1 fighter in the world, and Mayweather picked him apart as if he were just a tune up similar to how Ali picked Quarry apart after his own layoff. No matter how you slice it that is a phenomenal performance.

The only reason you can't give Mayweather his props is because you don't like him. Again, if Marquez had won, everyone and their mom would be worshiping the ground he walked on and praising him as the greatest Mexican boxer of all time and a h2h king.

Something similar happened when Errol Spence pitched a complete shut out dominant win over Mikey Garcia and then there were crickets with nobody giving Spence any credit.

Should fighter in higher weight classes just refuse to accept challenges from people in lower divisions if they aren't going to get credit when they win? What's the point?

I could have sworn I did. Maybe it was when I was responding to George and not you.

I'm saying Pacquiao contradicted himself a million times. That the shoulder thing was a weird excuse because we SAW him throwing with both hands during that fight and throwing rapid flurries in training camp videos just a week before the fight.

When Vitlai Klitschko had a torn rotator cuff the pain was so bad he quit in a fight he was WINNING.

Well of course, he didn't beat the current version of Canelo no one is saying that. I'm saying beating a fighter who goes on to do great things makes the initial win greater than if that fighter goes on to get their ass kicked.

Kind of like how Victor Ortiz was a good win initially because he was hugely popular and had a good resume and then his career just spiraled out of control with multiple bad losses. That's why few people bring up the Ortiz win.

 

Because Winky was never a draw, doofus. He left this and an Oscar fight on the table.

 

No Joe Gans at 135?
No Henry Armstrong 140-147?
No Sugar Ray Robinson at 147!?!
No Manny Pacquiao at ANY weight?

Everyone of those would be ranked ahead of Floyd. And would beat him.

 

Many Pacquiao sure as hell didn’t.

 

No, he didn't but I think had they fought 5 years earlier he would have, but that's just an opinion, not a fact.
I stand by my comment that Gans (at 135), Armstrong (at 140) and SRR (from 147 to 154) would have beat him.
Again, an opinion.

 

It’s a shame they never fought during Mayweather’s prime.

 

Which is why I have Floyd lower than he probably should be. He almost ALWAYS took the easy way out once he got up to 140 or so. I cant blame him; it's a business and I'm not the one in the ring getting hit. But as a fan he disappointed up many, many times by not
fighting the best AT their best.