How Would You Rate Mayweather, H2H, at Each Weight?

He's already past the woefully inconsistent Giardello on my list. Joey has some really great wins, but some equally bad losses on his resume. Both are around the 150-175 range, imo.

Well, you did say it was a shut out, initially, which created this particular strand of conversation in this thread. I'd say Cotto-Marg II was far closer to a real shut out, all things considered.

 

Canelo was not an ATG when Floyd beat him and he`s a fully fledged middle now which the power to stop super-middles.

 

Drew101,

I know this. And he deserves huge credit for it.

It shows his character. Ortiz was deservedly docked a point by the referee. But Floyd had clearly acknowledged his apology before they continued.

Floyd had an issue with his gloves before their first fight.

It wasn’t a contributing factor at all. Manny agreed to all of Floyd’s testing demands, yet the fight still took around 2 years to make. Floyd had an illegal IV, which should officially have been classed as a medical emergency, which the NSAC had no knowledge of until almost a month after the fight.

Yes, Floyd eventually fought the 2nd best WW in the division, after he was clearly faded and injured. After he’d been iced by Marquez. Again, Floyd then took PEDS before beating an injured version of Manny, who had shoulder surgery 5 days later.

Was this proof to you that he’d have signed contracts to fight guys like Leonard and Hearns?

You really think that he’d have fought those guys, because he eventually fought Manny?

You can believe that if you want. But I’m a logically thinking person who watched Floyd’s entire career.

It was completely unnecessary and just another example of Floyd’s character. Canelo was a fellow JMW champion, and Floyd fought Oscar and Canelo at the weight.

So what?

They were lesser fighters.

How would he have been more willing?

He talks about money, but his unbeaten record was far more important to him.

Great. But your opinions aren’t in any way logical to how the guy carried himself throughout his boxing career.

Again, if he wouldn’t fight Manny Pacquiao in his prime, then why on earth should I believe that he would have fought Ray Leonard?

If he wouldn’t fight Canelo at 154, then why on earth should I believe that he would have fought a monster in Hearns?

There’s no logic in believing that he’d have fought prime ATG’s of the past, when it’s not something that he was willing to do in his actual career.

Again, it’s okay saying that he fought the no.1 guy at WW etc, but there’s a world of difference between fighting a faded and injured Manny, to signing a contract to fight a prime Ray Leonard.

If you think that he’d have fought those greats, then you’re obviously entitled to that opinion. But to me, it holds no weight whatsoever. Because what we saw in his actual career shows us that as well as being one of the greatest fighters of all time, that he was also very insecure with huge confidence issues.

 

Pacquiao, Chavez, Duran, Armstrong, SRL, Pernell, SSR, Hearns, and many more...

 

PBF beats any version of Pac a shot PBF schooled him. Pac couldn't even beat JMM clearly in 4 fights FFS. Stop!

 

It wouldn’t have been a toss up.

Do you seriously think that Floyd would have fought Hearns in a offensively minded way in order to have tried to have banked the majority of the rounds?

Floyd obviously would never have fought Hearns. But even if I humour the suggestion for the sake of the thread, he’d have been in survival mode.

You can’t even compare fighting a faded Cotto, and a young, naive version of Canelo, to fighting Hearns at his best.

Yeah, I think you can clearly say that Hearns would have outboxed Floyd. Because Floyd was only 5’8 with a 72” reach. And again, Ray Leonard, Marvin Hagler, Wilfred Benitez and Virgil Hill weren’t able to out box him.

As great as he was, Floyd was just too small to have won a boxing match against an elite level boxer who was 6’1 with a 78” reach.

You could say that Floyd was a better boxer in a P4P sense. But on a H2H basis, he didn’t have the size to outbox him, nor the power to stop him.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anybody say that this fight would have been a toss up before.

Regarding Manny vs Duran, I could envisage certain versions of Manny beating him. But prime for prime, I’d have favoured Duran.

 

We could do. But it would be pretty pointless. Ha!

You’d obviously just claim that he’d have fought Duran, Leonard and Hearns etc.

We know that’s what you’d say. But obviously I wouldn’t agree. As again, he wouldn’t take those kinds of fights in his actual career which we both saw play out.

 

I respect what you’ve written above.

Yes, it’s supposition. But based upon logic. Based upon what he did and didn’t do in his actual career.

Nobody thought that he would dare to fight Canelo?

Really?

Yeah, he finally did business with Manny. A faded and injured version who had recently been iced by Marquez. And he had to take PEDS beforehand.

If this is evidence to you that he’d have fought the ‘Fab Four’ then that’s fine. It’s obviously up to you what you believe.

To me, actions like that is actually evidence that he WOULDN’T have fought those types of guys.

 

We’ve done this to death.

How many more times do we need to discuss it?

Manny went back and agreed to Floyd’s number of cut off days. Floyd then said that they were no longer on the table. It then became a game of one-upmanship in a battle of huge egos. They then went their separate ways.

Manny then publicly agreed to every testing demand, including random testing up to the day off the fight. Yet did Floyd and Ellerbe then want to meet to discuss a fight? No, they didn’t. Again, the fight didn’t happen until almost 2 years later.

Again, yes, Roach said that. But again, even when Manny agreed to everything in 2013, still nothing happened. So why should I believe that it would have happened earlier, if Manny had agreed to everything straight away? You love highlighting that video. But what actually happened in real time is more evidence than that interview. Roach said that they both could have handled things differently and agreed earlier. Well, yeah. But Floyd could also have handled things differently too. But if the fight wasn’t made in 2013 after Manny had publicly agreed to everything, then there’s absolutely no logic in stating that it would have happened sooner if Manny and Roach had agreed to everything in 2011-2012.

If you want to keep quoting your 2009 facts, then that’s fine. But it’s also a fact that that the fight happened in May, 2015, which was almost 2 years after Manny had agreed to everything in 2013.

Regarding the testing, no, Floyd wouldn’t have been ran of the sport had he have had a legitimate reason for wanting a cut off like what Manny had. And the sport was very different back then, where fighters weren’t tested in the same way.

Regarding the IV, you know that it was absolutely laughable. And do you really expect people to be okay with a statement made by NSAC, when they had absolutely no knowledge of the incident until 3 weeks AFTER the fight? Ha!

That statement was worthless and you know it. It was damage control. You hide behind that statement. But I know that you know what happened.

An IV of that magnitude is illegal because it’s a known masking agent. And we all know that Floyd wasn’t severely dehydrated to the point of needing it, which should have been classed as a medical emergency, requiring admittance to a hospital.

Floyd and USADA purposely didn’t report it.

Isn’t it ironic that after slandering Manny for years, without a single shred of evidence, that it was Floyd who took an illegal IV and used a BS excuse as to why he needed it.

Floyd is insecure. And any talk of him fighting guys like Leonard and Hearns in their primes is absolutely ridiculous.

 

Pac was the reason the fight didn't happen the first time, there's no other explanation he didn't want random blood testing with no cutoffs, he wouldn't agree. Roach has said this. They pulled out of talks and went on to fight Clottey while PBF was left holding the bag after he agreed to even the purse split. There was only 1 fighter who was being a diva and that was Pac. PBF even agreed to that 1million per pound over fine that Pac wanted. Pac nor Roach nor Arum wanted the fight. Roach even said that he needed more time in order to come up with a proper gameplan in order to deal with PBF. It makes sense that they didn't want the fight because they knew PBF was the truth and a stylistic nightmare for Pac. So they didn't agree and moved on knowing damn well they were more liked by the public more than PBF was so they wouldn't get the blame and people would blame PBF and it worked, even though it was their fault people would overlook it because of their hate of PBF. I'll be dammed fast forward to 2021 and we still have people like you and others putting the blame on PBF when it was Pac's fault the fight didn't happen the 1st time making up every excuse in the book for Pac.

After that PBF was pissed and said screw Pac he dismissed him but so did Pac's side with Arum with the whole count down clock and we need to build a stadium stuff. It was bad blood on both sides and both were at fault at that point.

As far as the IV he was cleared and never failed a test, anything else is speculation period. PBF looked like **** he looked shot I don't think he was on PEDS. It wasn't like he upped his workrate and was throwing 80 punches a round or had big power or something like that. Pac lost to PBF then and would have always lost to PBF back in 2010 2011 2012 or 2013 for 1 simple reason he has no answer for how PBF can control range and dictate distance on him period end of discussion PBF is a master at doing that. Pac nor Arum complained about the IV why? Because they knew there was nothing to it at the end of the day. They also knew that PBF was a bad match up for them so they took their L and moved on.

 

Hearns would KO Mayweather. He's just too big, rangy and quick. Mayweathers career is cherrypicked to the max, can't believe he gets hype and called 50-0 and TBE. His fanboys are dumb ****ing idiots. Mayweathers clearly skilled, patient, quick sharp counters but all this was untested against legit prime opposition. High level fraud, there's no point trying to convince his fanboys let them dumb ****s continue fooling for that ****

 

You're the same guy who thinks Canelo is a fraud. WTF do you know about boxing? Just full of excuses and hate. Let me clue you in on something your favorite current boxer isn't better than either of them. If PBF and Canelo are frauds and cherry pickers then so is your current favorite boxer.

 

Yea sure old Pac took 4 rounds off Floyd at 147 after he had been KO'd by JMM and lost to Tim Bradley. After he couldnt KO anyone for over 5 years. When he was more of a politician than a boxer. Floyd can't beat a prime Pac at 130-140 I don't care who won in the twilight of their careers at 147 where Pac is a midget, same way I dont consider Antonio Tarver better than Roy Jones.

 

These are cumulative names, so assume that I also pick them at a higher weight.

SFW: Arguello, Pacquiao, Chavez, Saddler

LW: Leonard, Gans, Duran, Whitaker, Williams, Armstrong

LWW: Aaron Pryor

WW: Robinson, Leonard, Napoles, Griffith, Whitaker, Hearns, Forrest, Trinidad

LMW: McCallum, Norris, Wright

So in short I think he's quite clearly one of the best to ever lace en up and you have to be a really special talent to be favoured over him.

Individually I favour all those I've said, but in reality Floyd would beat some of them, I just don't know which ones.

As a side note I don't buy into the mythicality of Hoya and Mosley at LW, put them in a class with Moorer at LHW.