How you rate the heavyweights at present?

I have a simply categorisation for the current crop of Heavyweights.

1. Elite and top of the tree - Tyson Luke Fury son of Gypsy John Fury and the legend known as the Gypsy King.
2. Still to prove elite level in the Heavyweight Division - Usyk, Wilder and Tony Dosh PPV. (need to fight each other or Tyson Fury instead of fighting puddings.)
3. Potential to move into group above - Hunter and Joyce.
4. Simply a comprehensive range of puddings from Pudding Whyte right through to the biggest Pudding of all Dave Allen.)

 

1:fury
2:Joshua
3:Usyk
4: parker
5:Hunter
6:joyce
7:ruiz
8: povetkin
9:whyte
10:hrgovic/ortiz/pulev

 

I rate both Rivas and Ortiz similar level. Neither are top 10.

 

The point i was trying ot make is i wouldn't confidently pick anybody to beat him from 3 down. The Heavyweight division is full of dross and gives fighters like Wilder the ability to stand out. I dont get how people like yourself cant see how basic all these fighters are. We have an interesting triangle with AJ, Fury and Wilder, maybe Usyk can get involved but the rest are very poor.

 

Joshua's best wins has been against old men in Klitschko, Povetkin and Pulev. Deeper resume, but again like Wilders best win against an old fighter on slide.

 

Parker, Whyte and Ruiz Amongst his six best wins as well.

You surley cant compare Wilders win over Ortiz to these guys? Only one notable win against Ortiz who himself only has one notably win his whole career compared to the others who have superior best wins and much deeper resumes.

 

Ruiz has one notable win.

 

That's arguably best win in the division.

 

And if Wilder had lost to Ortiz the first time, and beat him in the rematch, what would we say then ...... ?
Ortiz has "a top win", so Wilder's win against him in the rematch gains value ... ? ... that's the contradiction in these types of discussion.

If Joshua had 2 KO wins over Ruiz on his record, we might ask "why did he KO that guy twice ?", we say "Ruiz hasn't any outstanding credentials really" .....
.... but he goes 1-1 with Ruiz instead (one KO loss, one decision win) and "Ruiz" becomes something to brag about.

It's all 'circular logic'.

 

Wilder isn't anywhere near proven as AJ in terms of resume. Massive difference from beating the likes of Wlad, Povetkinn, Parker and Whyte to Duhaupas, Washington, Stiverne and Spzilka. Ruiz showed his level by beating such an accomplished fighter.

 

Or you could say Joshua showed his level by losing to such an unaccomplished fighter.
I'm not saying that but it's the same kind of circular logic.
It's better to take a more balanced view and recognize the grey areas and make a judgement on a fighter's quality.

I like Joseph Parker and rate him and even overrated him in the past ... but I could say "who did Parker ever beat?" ... he only barely beat Ruiz, who hadn't beat anyone ... and Takam, who I can't remember beating anyone .... coming off two poor decision wins over Hughie Fury and Cojanu FFS ... that's a big signature win for Joshua, that Parker win .... I could ask myself if it's better than Wilder's first win over Stiverne ....

And, yeah, I agree Wilder's resume is awful, clearly worse than AJ's, but there's no point flippantly casting doubt over Ortiz unless you're prepared to equally scrutinize everything.
I mean, even "the likes of ..... " Wladimir Klitschko, who hadn't WON a fight in 2 years .... that win being the Jennings win, which was far less impressive than the win Ortiz had over Jennings in Jennings' next fight.

Before we know it, we have to doubt whether any heavyweight has any good win worth talking about.

 

Whyte was an area level fighter. Ortiz is as good a win, and Wilder done it twice. As a single win it's as good if not better than any AJ win. But like I say AJ has more depth to his record.

 

At some point Joshua is going to have to put that Ruiz thing to bed with a third fight. Ruiz was a disgrace for that rematch but the fashion in which Joshua won his belts back doesn’t sit right with me. The size of the ring wouldn’t have been allowed in the UK. He slimmed right down and did a Lee Selby on him. He needs to go back in there in the next couple of years and bang him out to wipe that loss away imo.

 

... and now, a predicted KO win over 39 year old "Uncle Bulgaria" and there's a whole tribe of AJ fans acting like it's already been wiped away.

 

Ok so given the fact you have Wilder at 12, you believe all of those other 10 heavyweights (removing Fury) avoid that nuclear bomb of a right hand for the full 12 rounds?

Fury is the best, most awkward and hardest to hit of the lot and even he nearly got his head taken clean off in the first fight.