Howard Winstone vs Juan Manuel Marquez

The more I see of him the more I like Howard..he was an excellent boxer.

I tend to agree that at the very least his style and skills would take JMM out of his comfort zone and give him a tough fight..I dont think Marquez likes guys who can match him technically and who dont give him chances to counter consistently.

Its a toss up for me simply because I havent seen enough of Winstone and Ive seen plenty of Marquez.
I reckon if I saw a few more impressive performances of Howard Id lean towards him.

 

I thought that Marquez beat John, though do i think the style employing movement etc is likely the one to give Marquez problems, i just thought that Marquez was better than John and that's why i give him the decision. I actually think Marquez' will to win makes him a tough an immensely difficult prospect for any man, this is something he has shown with a great level of consistency. Even the outboxers so say to speak, he counters them even though logic says he shouldn't have anything to counter, his punches in bunches are quite speedy and the reason he doesn't give counter punchers much to counter themselves. Winstone will have to be on his game, i think he can be beaten if not, but i'll pick him. Sometimes i think it's actually the more offensive guys that enjoy success more so against Marquez though, his defence is not impregnable by any means.

I really don't mind who we take here, sorry i can't be more specific.

 

Which Winstone fights have you seen Rock?

 

All of this sweet...http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=HowardWinstone&view=videos..more on the second page too.

So only a few fights.

Love the second Salvidar fight...love to see the first. I know you are looking for it but have you seen it and just wanted a copy?

 

That's about the extent of what I've seen too. I haven't actually seen the first Saldivar-Winstone fight, but my understanding is that Howard performed better in the rematch.

I'd take the Winstone of the Saldivar rematch to beat Marquez on points quite clearly I think.

 

How you score the 2nd fight sweet?

I will have to watch it again and properly score it but I thought it was very close.

Howard was at times very convincingly outboxing Vincente in the mid-rounds..Im not sure if Salividar's late surge got him the fight or not.

Would have been interesting to see what would have happened if their wasnt just the ref as the sold judge.

 

Yeah I have scored it mate. I thought Saldivar took it quite comfortably on the scorecards after blasting Winstone down the stretch. It was super close for the first ten or so rounds until Saldivar took over with his physicality. There were a few close rounds in the fight that I gave to Saldivar, and my scorecard ended up being quite wide in Saldivar's favour, perhaps it was closer if you swing those rounds for Winstone, but still I feel Vicente was the clear winner.

 

[YT][/YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Djl3quTJ8Y













http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LtLL3210tw












http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93SujVI_g8I

 

There's some highlights of the first fight and an early fight against mexican camp Guerrero, pretty pointless stoppage in that one, but a nice little performance nonetheless.

 

Stoppage was terrible there, but that's one of the best establishments of a jab that i have seen. Pure boxing right there, thanks Mante.

 

What would get Winstone the win is that jab. John never established, or really developed one, which is why he was unsuccessful in out-boxing Marquez IMO. His generally low workrate didn't see him land enough solid blows on the much more active and aggressive Marquez, though he did expose some flaws in Marquez's style. He controlled the pacing of the fight with his superior footspeed and ring generalship, where he forced a counter-puncher in Marquez to take the lead. Obviously this was not Marquez's comfort zone, and he didn't look good in this fight at all, but I thought John's lack of offensive output (in particular a consistent jab) should have cost him the fight, even though the official scorecards didn't suggest as much.

Back to the point, what John lacked is what Winstone provided, and his was one of the best jabs in the history of the Featherweight division. Winstone was a borderline great fighter who just happened to be caught up in the wrong era, where a truly great champion (Saldivar) overshadowed the rest of a talent laden division. I think his durability and toughness would see him through anything Marquez could dish out, and think Marquez's style would be much more suited to a pure boxer like Winstone than vice-versa.

Winstone by UD.

 

Good post.

I just want to say that on the point of John-Marquez, though you are correct i thought that ultimately why Marquez won (in both our opnions) is because he was simply better. John has a jab and is a pure boxer, Marquez had more (even if he does have a comfort zone) imo.

 

Pretty sure there is highlights floating around. About 15-20 mins worth I think.

I havent see it though.